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I have just managed to see all the replies and hard work you have all done to help me.
I can't thank you all enough.
My father knew nothing at all, and the baptism certificate was found after he died in 1976.
I never met his sister, my aunt.
I did have a DNA test and am related to the Ashdown's originating in Sussex and Rotherhithe, but that's as far as I have managed to get.
The Upjohn's had one son George, Reginald was taken in, he was born in Pimlico so I suppose they took these children for payment.
Anyway you have given me loads of information and help, so many thanks.
Pat

London Gazette 24 Feb 1941 page 1137

The undermentioned to be Lt's
11 Jan 1941
Full Name
Upjohn, John Harold
Military Service Date Jan 1941
Rank S.s.m.
Unit
Royal Army Service Corps
Regiment
Royal Army Service Corps
Regiment Number
167982

Fold 3 has a copy of the wedding entry
Wedding of John Harold Upjohn and Elizabeth Mary Butteries
Marriage Date
7 Apr 1934
Marriage Place
The Royal Garrison Church Woolwich, Woolwich, County of London

**Father-in-law Full Name Frederick James Butteries
**Painter and Decorator

**Elizabeth's address 42 Hythe Buildings, Railway Avenue, Rotherhithe

**Witnesses- Bride's father, Elizabeth Clara Butteries and John Francis Hennesey

** He was 31 She was 18

Detail Source
Name Kate Ashdown
Death Age 79
Birth Date abt 1873
Registration Date Oct 1952
[Nov 1952]
[Dec 1952]
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district Surrey North Western
Inferred County Surrey
Volume 5g
Page 754

?
Just a guess , case she never married and lived local.

This is 1911 for the Ashdown/Wilson birth posted earlier

1911 Census For England & Wales
23 Lindrop Street Fulham SW, Fulham, London & Middlesex, England

John Ashdown Head Married Male 32 1879 Butcher Edenbridge Kent
Alice Ashdown Wife - Female 35 1876 - Deptford Kent
Maud Ashdown Daughter - Female 13 1898 School Wandsworth London
Ada Ashdown Daughter - Female 11 1900 School Wandsworth
John Ashdown Son - Male 8 1903 School Brixton London
James Ashdown Son - Male 6 1905 School Clapham London
Nellie Ashdown Daughter - Female 2 1909 - Kilburn London
Doris Ashdown Daughter - Female 0 1911 - Queens Park Estate London

Hilda was born at 2, Crown Terrace, Lower Sydenham. KATE registered the birth on 8th August - she was a Domestic Servant
Kate was not at that address in 1901

(Got fed-up waiting for answer from OP)

The poster need to give all known details she was told about the placement with Upjohns as I'm sure questions were asked by Hilda and John.


Added.
DNA maybe the way to go.

Sorry, Kay???? -- I don't understand.

If you mean the 1901 census I posted for the woman I've guessed at, she was said to be born in 1875 in Peasmarsh, Sussex - not 1871 in Poplar.


ADDED:
Re the Katherine in the 1881 census you posted above -
in 1901 she's said to be born in Hackney in 1872. Her birth reg (Katherine Mary Ashdown) was in Hackney in 1872. No mention of Poplar.

Name Katherine Ashdown
Age 9
Estimated Birth Year abt 1872
Relationship to Head Daughter
Father George Ashdown
Mother Esther Ashdown
Gender Female
Where born Hackney, Middlesex, England
Civil parish St Pancras
County/Island London
Country England
Street Address 22 Leighton Crest
Occupation Scholar
Registration district Pancras
Sub registration district Kentish Town
ED, institution, or vessel 46
Neighbors View others on page
Piece 223
Folio 68
Page number 48
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
George Ashdown
54
Head
Esther Ashdown
36
Wife
Edith Ashdown
12
Daughter
Ellen Ashdown
11
Daughter
***Katherine Ashdown***** 9 Daughter
Jane Ashdown
18
Niece
Save

Could this be the Kate born Popular 1871 as per 1901 census,

Just fouind it in 1901censusand wondered if her proper name could have been Katherine and not Kate..

Maybe she was more local.

Found them at last in 1921. Doesn't help with Kate though. Have sent in a correction.

1921 Census Of England & Wales
73, Bangalore Street, Putney, Wandsworth Borough, London & Surrey, England

Household members (5 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
George Myjohn Head
Male 1864 57 Twickenham, Middlesex, England Carpenter A Poiner Building Trade F G Muniton Builder Putney Works Surrey
Emily Myjohn Wife
Female 1871 49 Mortlake, Surrey, England Housewife -
Harrold Myjohn Son
Male 1903 18 Richmond, Surrey, England Despatch Clerk Ironmonger Messrs Shearne & Co Ironmonger Etc High St Putney Surrey
Hilda Myjohn Daughter
Female 1900 20 Richmond, Surrey, England Clerk Furnaceman Clerk Prudendial Surnioner Out Of Work
Charlotte Morton Lodger
Female 1856 65 London, London, England Needle Work -

John Harold Upjohn
Gender Male
Marriage Age 31
Record Type Marriage
Birth Date abt 1903
Marriage Date 7 Apr 1934
Marriage Place The Royal Garrison Church Woolwich, Woolwich, County of London
Military Place The Royal Garrison Church Woolwich, Woolwich, County of London
Father
George Upsolm(Upjohn) a carpenter & joiner.
Spouse
Elizabeth Mary Butteries
Description War Office: Uk and Overseas Garrisons: Register of Marriage. the Royal Garrison Church, Woolwich, London: Register No 1
Reference Number Wo 156/325

England Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms
Putney, Our Lady of Pity & St Simon Stock, Surrey, England

First name(s) Hilda
Father's first name(s) George
Last name Up John
Father's last name Up John
Birth year 1900
Mother's first name(s) Amiliae Or Emily
Birth date 17 Jul 1900
Mother's last name Foster
Baptism year 1905
Archive Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Southwark
Baptism date 07 May 1905
Register type Baptisms
Parish Putney, Our Lady of Pity & St Simon Stock
Register year range 1902-1915
Deanery Mortlake
Record set England Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms
Diocese Southwark
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
County Surrey
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Country England
Collections from England, Great Britain


and 1911

1911 Census For England & Wales
33 Danemere Street Putney, Wandsworth, London & Surrey, England
Household members (8 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Upjohn Head
Married Male 47 1864 Joiner building Twickenham Middlesex
Emily Upjohn Wife
Married Female 41 1870 - Mortlake Surrey
Reginald Upjohn Son
Single Male 20 1891 Clerk national telephon copny Westminster
George Harold Upjohn Son
Single Male 18 1893 Clerk boot manufacturing copny Mortlake Surrey
Hilda Upjohn Daughter
- Female 10 1901 - Richmond Surrey
Harold Upjohn Son
- Male 8 1903 - Richmond Surrey
Alfred Richardson Nephew
Single Male 20 1891 Clerk british south african copny Ireland Resident Co Wicklow
Emily Norris Niece
Single Female 25 1886 - Mortlake Surrey


Surrey Baptisms
Richmond, St John, Surrey, England (an Anglican Church)

First name(s) John George
Country England
Last name Ashdown
Archive Surrey History Centre
Birth year 1902
Archive reference 2445/1/5
Birth date 04 Apr 1902
Register type Baptisms
Baptism year 1902
Year range 1901-1915
Baptism date 11 Jun 1902
Page 19
Mother's first name(s) Kate
Record set Surrey Baptisms
Mother's last name Ashdown
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Residence 10 Duncan Road
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Place Richmond, St John
Collections from England, Great Britain



Surrey Baptisms
Richmond, St John, Surrey, England

First name(s) Hilda Emily
Country England
Last name Ashdown
Archive Surrey History Centre
Birth year 1900
Archive reference 2445/1/5
Birth date 17 Jul 1900
Register type Baptisms
Baptism year 1902
Year range 1901-1915
Baptism date 11 Jun 1902
Page 19
Mother's first name(s) Kate
Record set Surrey Baptisms
Mother's last name Ashdown
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Residence 10 Duncan Road
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Place Richmond, St John
Collections from England, Great Britain

The children were obviously illegitimate

ASHDOWN, HILDA -
GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in LEWISHAM Volume 01D Page 1222

Patricia……….

What was the address at which Hilda was born? And who actually registered the birth? Did the mother have an occupation?

As you have a birth certificate which would give both parents names ( usually) it might be worth looking into the to try and find out why the children seem to with another family.

Even though she was registered in Lewisham and baptised in Richmond, 1901 census gives Hilda's birthplace as Purley, which is close to Croydon.

1911 gives the birthplace of both children as Richmond, an understandable stretching of the truth, as they had both lived in Richmond practically from birth.
John George is called Harold in 1911, and John Harold in later records.

Does Hilda's birth cert give Kate's address?


I see that on the baptism record (both children baptised on the same date), it gives Kate's address as 10 Duncan Road - which was the Upjohns' address, so presumably only temporary, or notional, for Kate in 1902.


Just a sheer guess - rightly or wrongly, this woman attracts me:

Kate Ashdown
in the 1901 England Census
Name Kate Ashdown
Age 26
Estimated Birth Year abt 1875
Relation to Head Servant
Gender Female
Birth Place Peasmarsh, Sussex, England
Civil parish Croydon
Search Photos
View blank form
Ecclesiastical parish St Matthew
Town Croydon
County/Island Surrey
Country England
Registration district Croydon
Sub-registration district Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel 32
Neighbors
Piece 639
Folio 189
Page number 35
Household schedule number 147
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Robert H Jones 72 Head
Rosa K Jones 31 Daughter
Mary Briant 29 Servant
Kate Ashdown 26 Servant
Fanny West 22 Servant



Kate Ashdown
in the 1911 England Census
Learn what this record has to say with AncestryAI.
Name Kate Ashdown
Age in 1911 36
Estimated Birth Year abt 1875
Relation to Head Servant
Gender Female
Birth Place Peasmarsh, Sussex, England
Civil parish Croydon
County/Island Surrey
Country England
Street Address The Knoll, 5 Chichester Road, Croydon
Marital Status Single
Occupation Domestic Parlourmaid
Registration District Number 39
Sub-registration district South Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel 13
Piece 3294
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Robert Hesketh Jones 82 Head
Mary Jane Jones 81 Wife
Rosa Katrina Jones 40 Daughter
Kate Ashdown 36 Servant
Louisa Ling 41 Servant
Leah Stewart 27 Servant


I don't see her in earlier censuses, nor a birth record - nor definitely in any record after 1911.

Hilda in 1901.


Name George Upjohn
Age 36
Estimated Birth Year abt 1865
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Spouse Emily Upjohn
Birth Place Twickenham, Middlesex, England
Civil parish Richmond
Search Photos
View blank form
Ecclesiastical parish St John the Divine
County/Island Surrey
Country England
Registration district Richmond
Sub-registration district Richmond
ED, institution, or vessel 19
Neighbors View others on page
Piece 676
Folio 11
Page number 14
Household schedule number 102
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
George Upjohn 36 Head
Emily Upjohn
32
Wife
Reginald Upjohn
10
Son
George H Upjohn
8
Son
Gus Ingle
9
Visitor
***Hilda Ashdown***
9/12
N;W(Nurse Child)
Minnie Green
52
Boarder
Save

The Baptism of both John George and Hilda give address 10 Duncan Road
John George Ashdown bap entry born 4 Ap 1902 ?
Hilda Emily Ashdown bap entry born 17 July 1900.
.
Hilda birth is only registered as Hilda Ashdown,Emily probaly was included from Mrs UpJohn.,as John may have been given George UpJohn name.?.

Hilda birth reg gives no maiden name.?

?
ASHDOWN, JOHN WILSON
GRO Reference: 1902 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 451

Yes I am in New Zealand, and thank you for your advice and help.I am so new to this.I have the baptismal certificate for my Aunt born July 1900 and my father born in June 1902 at St.John the Baptist, Richmond Surrey, on the 11th June 1902.
I have a copy of my Aunt's birth certificate Hilda, in Lower Sydenham on July 17 1900, but no trace of a birth certificate for my father John George.
They were brought up in the Upjohn household and were given that surname,which became my surname.
I have no idea who Kate was or anything about her and am hoping to find something, have been looking for a long time.
Thank you once again.

Yes, I suspected that.
She'll have been sleeping while we posted our replies.

Almost certainly located in NZ.........