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Off at another tangent!
Re Mary R Dunbar in Alviegal's post above:

I found these records yesterday and discounted them because this woman was apparently born in 1844, and she's not on the 1850 or 1855 censuses with David and Mary Ann or Harriet.

But maybe she lied and was really 11 years older.


Name Mary R. Guiles
Sex Female
Age 67
Birth Year (Estimated) 1844
Birthplace England
Burial Date 13 Nov 1911
Marital Status Widowed
Race White
Father's Name David Dunbar <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Father's Sex Male
Father's Birthplace England
Mother's Name Mary Shears <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mother's Sex Female
Mother's Birthplace England
Event Type Death
Event Date 10 Nov 1911
Event Place Manhattan, New York City, New York, United States
Certificate Number cn 33515
Cemetery Cypress Hills


Mary R Guiles
in the 1910 United States Federal Census
Name Mary R Guiles
Age in 1910 67
Birth Date 1843 [1843]
Birthplace England
Home in 1910 Manhattan Ward 12, New York, New York, USA
Sheet Number 4b
Street West 129 Street
Race White
Gender Female
Immigration Year 1848
Relation to Head of House Head
Marital Status Widowed
Father's Birthplace England
Mother's Birthplace Scotland
Native Tongue English
Home Owned or Rented Rent
Farm or House House
Able to read Yes
Able to Write Yes
Enumeration District Number 0499
Years Married 50
Number of Children Born 5
Number of Children Living 2
Enumerated Year 1910
Neighbors
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Mary R Guiles 67 Head
Ella G Guiles 42 Daughter


1905 census seems badly done - impossible for her to be Richard's mother (must be wife), and Ella's not Richard's sister.

Mary R Guiles
in the New York, U.S., State Census, 1905
Name Mary R Guiles
Birth Year abt 1845
Birth Place United States
Age 60
Gender Female
Race White
Residence Year 1905
Residence Manhattan, New York, New York, USA
Relationship to Head Mother
Assembly District 31
Election District 34
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Richard Guiles 50 Head
Mary R Guiles 60 Mother
Ella G Guiles 35 Sister


Richard Guiles
in the New York, New York, U.S., Extracted Marriage Index, 1866-1937
Name Richard Guiles
Gender Male
Marriage Date 20 Nov 1890
Marriage Place Manhattan, New York, USA
Certificate Number 13181

(No corresponding marriage record for Mary.)

???
Richard Guiles
in the New York, New York, U.S., Extracted Death Index, 1862-1948
Name Richard Guiles
Age 45
Birth Year abt 1860 (doesn't fit with 1905 census )
Death Date 25 Aug 1905
Death Place Manhattan, New York, USA
Certificate Number 27367

Just googling David M Dunbar brings this up from https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/GKX8-CMH/david-m-dunbar-1812-1856

David M Dunbar was born in 1812 as the son of David Dunbar and Mary ann. He had at least 5 daughters with Mary Ann Spears. He died in 1856, at the age of 44.

David Marion Dunbar died at sea, he was the first mate on a clipper ship The Driver in 1856, his son also with the same name was born shortly after his death.


David M Dunbar
Male1812–1856 • Male

Mary Ann Spears
Female1811–Deceased • Female

Children (5)

Mary R Dunbar
Female1833–1911 • Female
Barbara Sellers Dunbar
Female1834–1835 • Female
Margaret Jane Dunbar
Female1836–1837 • Female
Elizabeth Burnett Dunbar
Female1840–Deceased • Female
Ellen Dunbar
Female1845–Deceased • Female

Spouse

David M Dunbar
Male1812–1856 • Male

Harriett Ruffell Dunbar
Female1830–1859 • Female

Children (2)

Ellen Dunbar
Female1845–Deceased • Female

David Marion Dunbar
Male1856–1927 • Male

Parents

David Dunbar
MaleDeceased • Male

Mary ann
FemaleDeceased • Female

Well, I'm glad that's cleared up!
That's definitely the right Harriet's death.
The informant was either her mother or her sister.

The apparent 1820 baptism must be a mistranscription, or else a coincidence:

Harriet Ruffell
Vital • England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
Image Unavailable
Name Harriet Ruffell
Christening Date 26 Apr 1820
Christening Place Of This Parish
Father's Name Benjamin Ruffell
Mother's Name Ann Ruffell
Event Type Other
Image Number 574


Benjamin's daughter in 1841:

Henret Rafferty [ Ruffell on image ]
in the 1841 England Census
Name Henret Rafferty [Harriet Ruffell]
Age 13
Estimated Birth Year abt 1828
Gender Female
Where born Cheshire, England
Civil parish St Michael
Hundred Chester
County/Island Cheshire
Country England
Registration district Great Boughton
Sub-registration district Castle Division
Neighbors
Piece 129
Book 23
Folio 8
Page number 9
Household Members (Name) Age
Benjaman Rafferty 32
Ann Rafferty 34
Henret Rafferty 13
John Rafferty 7
Ann Rafferty 4
Benjamen Rafferty 2


In 1851 Ann is on her own with children Benjamin, Mary, and Elizabeth. Harriet isn't with her.
Benjamin senior , on the night of the census at least, is with the Henshaw family in Woodbank, Cheshire.

However, I've led everyone off track.
Sadly, none of this helps find David Marion's ancestry.

Harriet Dunbar
BIRTH
1830
DEATH
1 Mar 1859 (aged 28–29)
BURIAL
Overleigh Old Cemetery
Chester, Cheshire West and Chester Unitary Authority, Cheshire, England
PLOT
G7332

Chester newspapers of the 12 March 1859 read

DEATHS On the 1st inst. at Bridge Street, Chester, aged 29, Harriet, widow of the late Mr. David Dunbar (chief mate of the ship Driver) who was drowned on his voyage to New York.

Further to ArgyllGran Report 5 May 2024 14:33

Death Certificate of Harriet Dunbar aged 29
1 Mar 1859 at Ashtons Bldgs, Lower Bridge St, Chester
shows her as " widow of David Dunbar-Mate Merchant Service"

Informant was Ann Ruffell

Not to be confused with this Harriet identified previously by ArgyllGran

First name(s) Harriet
Last name Ruffell
Gender Female
Birth year 1836
Country England
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name Ruffell
Mother's first name(s) Ann
Baptism year 1836
Record set Cheshire Diocese Of Chester Parish Baptisms 1538-1911
Baptism date 25 Sep 1836
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Place Chester, St John the Baptist
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
County Cheshire
Collections from England, Great Britain

ArgyllGran Re your 5 May 2024 14:33

First name(s) Harriet
Last name Ruffell
Birth year 1820
Mother's first name(s) -
Father's first name(s) Benjamin
Father's last name Ruffell
Baptism year 1820
Record set Cheshire Diocese Of Chester Parish Baptisms 1538-1911
Baptism date 26 Apr 1820
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Place Chester, St Michael **********************************************
County Cheshire
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from England, Great Britain
Country England

???

Mary Ann Dunbar
in the U.S., Find a Grave® Index, 1600s-Current
Name Mary Ann Dunbar
Death Date May 1853
Cemetery Green-Wood Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place Brooklyn, Kings County, New York, United States of America
Has Bio? N

The 1855 census does seem close enough to be the same family.

It says that David had been living in NY for 15 years, which would be from 1840, and he was naturalised.
That doesn't fit with the 1838 naturalisation record which said he (if the same person) had been in NY for one year - but I'm willing to believe that the 1855 info isn't accurate.

The 1855 Census also says that Harriet had been in NY for 12 years, and was not naturalised.

However, there aren't any immigration records.

On the image of the 1850 NY Census above, the husband's first name looks like Danl (abbreviated version of Daniel ??) but I suppose it could be Davd - (abbreviated David)

No occupation is shown.

Ancestry suggests it relates to an immigration record for a Daniel Donbar , born c1808, arriving in NY from Ireland in 1847.

Not that that's anything to go by, as many of Ancestry's suggestions are ludicrous.

Fuller details from FMP on the marriage above

He is a Bachelor, and a Mariner and there is no record of a second forename
The marriage was By Licence on 29th Feb1832 at St Michael’s Church, Upper Pitt Street, Liverpool
Witnesses: John Greggs and John McCulloch

The bride’s surname looks more like Shears on the image……..

Census 1850 New York City, New York County, New York, United States
Enumerator made an error in the 1855 Census re birthplaces??


Name David (illegible) M Dunbar
Sex Male
Age 42 years
Birth Year (Estimated) 1808
Birthplace England


Mary Ann Dunbar
F 37 years
Scotland

Elizth Dunbar
F 10 years
New York

Ellen Dunbar
F
5 years
New York

The tree to which I made reference at 08:56 has Mary Ann Spears as the wife of the man who died in Feb 1856, aged 43, but as I said, it needs to be verified, as does all online info.

There is an 1850 census record attached…………..

1. David M Dunbar
Migration • New York, County Naturalization Records, 1791-1980

Name David M Dunbar
Event Type Naturalization
Event Date 1838
Event Place New York, United States
Certificate Number 27
Volume Naturalization index no date Duffy, K-Egan, M
_____________________________________________________________________________________
2. New York Births and Christenings, 1640-1962

Name Elizabeth Burnett Dunbar
Birth Date 24 Jun 1839
Father's Name David M. Dunbar ****
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Mary Ann ****
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Christening
Event Date 19 Sep 1839
Event Place New York City, New York County, New York, United States

___________________________________________________________________________________

3. And just to confuse the matter

Census • New York State Census, 1855
Place: E.D. 9, Ward 11, New York City, New York, New York, United States

Name David Dunbars (listed as born Scotland, Mariner)
Sex Male
Age 48 years
Birth Date 1807
Relationship to Head of Household Head

Spouses and Children

Harriet Dunbars (born England)
Wife
F 35

Ellen Dunbars
Daughter
F 11

Event Type Census
Event Date 1855
Event Place New York City, New York, United States
Line Number 5

__________________________________________________________________________________

But there is the following marriage with similar Mother's first names as entry 2 above

Name Mary Ann Spears
Gender Female
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 29 Jan 1832
Parish Liverpool, St Michael, Lancashire, England
Spouse David Dunbar ********************

EDIT **** Spouse's occupation Mariner *****
________________________________________________________________________________

So I'm going to ask
a) Is David listed in 1855 Census ,New York as a Mariner (born Scotland) the same
David M sought after?
b) Married twice? Once to Mary Ann and then Harriett
c) Two different David's
d) Go sit in a corner and be quiet, as I've lost the plot

This man was British, and apparently born approx. 1816/1817.

". . he . . says that he has arrived at the age of 21 years, and that at the time he arrived in the United States, he had not attained his eighteenth year, and that for the continued term of five years last past, including three years of his minority, he has resided within the same, and for one year within the State of New York. . . . "

David M Dunbar
in the New York, U.S., State and Federal Naturalization Records, 1794-1943
Name David M Dunbar
Record Type Naturalization
Naturalization Date 7 Nov 1838

Erika mentioned that David M Dunbar was listed in New York 1846-52.

He was still listed there in 1857 - but maybe the list was compiled the year before ??:

David M Dunbar
in the U.S., City Directories, 1822-1995
Name David M Dunbar
Residence Year 1857
Street Address 179 Av B
Residence Place New York, New York, USA
Occupation Seaman
Publication Title New York, New York, City Directory, 1857


EDIT:
He's still listed in 1858 - so presumably not the right man.

David Marion Dunbar is in 38 trees on Ancestry.

The trees all have him as born 1857 or 1856 in NY - but none of the supporting records give a middle name for him.

His father is said to be David Marion Dunbar, DOB unknown, and his mother Harriet Ruffell (note spelling) .

However, the trees have the wrong Harriet Ruffell. (How do they know David's mother was Harriet Ruffell? )

According to the trees, Harriet was born and brought up in Chester, and born c1830.
One tree (possibly more) suggests that David 1857 may have been born in NY because Harriet may have had to go there in connection with his father's death, which happened while she was pregnant with young David.

However, that would imply that she married David Marion Dunbar in Cheshire - but there's no record of that.

The trees say that her parents were Benjamin Ruffell and Ann Jarvis - but then go on to show her in 1841 and 1851 censuses, born c 1836, with parents WILLIAM and Ann, in Great Boughton.

William and Ann's daughter is NOT the right one, as she married William Criddle in 1859 and is in later censuses as Criddle.

The only baptism of a Harriet Ruffell in Cheshire with father Benjamin was in 1820 , in an unnamed parish.

Harriet Ruffell
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
Name Harriet Ruffell
Christening Date 26 Apr 1820
Christening Place Of This Parish
Father's Name Benjamin Ruffell
Mother's Name Ann Ruffell
Event Type Other
Image Number 574

I don't know what proof they have of David Marion Dunbar's wife's age or father's name, nor why they assume she was born in England.


A woman named Harriet Dunbar certainly died in Great Boughton in 1859 - but aged 29, so not either of the Harriets above.

The trees also say that David's DOB was 27 July 1856 - but give no proof.
(Maybe that's from his military record, which gives his age as 58 year 151 days, on 6 Oct 1914. I haven't done the arithmetic.)

Do you have any documentary proof that David 1857/1856's mother was named Harriet Ruffell/Ruffle ? or have you assumed that other people's trees are correct?

David, born New York, appears to be in a GR member’s tree. Try making contact

Charles Frederick born Chester is in two trees

Name David Dunbar
Gender Male
Marital Status Single
Marriage Date 2 Sep 1878
Marriage Place St Mary, Chester, Cheshire, England
Father David Dunbar
Spouse Martha Fairbrother
FHL Film Number 2045845
Reference ID item 3 p 185