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thanks everyone, been busy so just seen everyone's messages, some messages that i have read they are his son who was born in 1856 in new york, the information she has is David Marion Dunbar born in 1807/1812 which one we are not sure, he emigrated to new york in 1836 with his then wife harriet ruffel, he worked on the clipper ships as first officer but that went down at sea in the atlantic in 1856 thats when his son David Dunbar was born who eventually moved to chester, cheshire his wife was martha fairbrother , his first wife was named mary ann spears.

There's no record of any David M Dunbar being baptised in Scotland , per SP or any other site - but of course that doesn't mean he couldn't have been born in Scotland.


The David M Dunbar on the NY City Directory was still listed in 1858, so presumably not the right man unless the list wasn't updated often.

ErikaH

No.

But, it must surely must have helped eliminate a few possibilties
I had hoped that perhaps by providing information regarding CLIPs,RMG there could be useful information contained within. ie Wills NOK etc
And there is always the National Archives

Other queries bouncing around in my head included
a. Could David M Dunbar have been born in Scotland, Ireland or USA,? ( but I would have thought FMP/Ancestry/Genes would have found something)

b.Patronym/Matronym - Marion as middle name, was he named after a GM/GF etc ?

c.soundlike middle name transcribed incorrectly ie Merrion, Merion etc ?

Again I thought one of the big databases would have turned something up...........

ErikaH - the answer is "no".

Just found this, may be useful in the future

CLIP - the Crew List Index Project
"CLIP is a not-for-profit volunteer project, set up to assist research into the records of British merchant seafarers of the late 19th and early 20th century.

The CLIP site provides information and data about the records of British merchant seafarers, mainly from 1863 to 1913.
The site also provides information and data about the records of British merchant shipping with records of every British registered ship from 1855 to the 1950s"

Has any of the in-depth research on this thread brought the OP any nearer to finding the names of David M’s parents?

Darren John- You will need to research this one for yourself

Royal Museum Greenwich website

Registrar General Of Shipping And Seamen, Agreements, Crew Lists And Official Logs (Manuscript)
1865
RSS/CL/1865/1377

"showing 1 archive results for 'RSS/CL/1865/1377'
17329 - Driver
Please note that not every crew list has survived within the quoted ship number range so we cannot guarantee the list for the ship you require will be present (please see research guide C1)."

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/archive/rmgc-object-612457

FMP results for D* Dunbar in Britain, Merchant Seamen, 1835-1857

First name(s)Last name Birth year Birth place Birth county/country Series Piece

David Dunbar — Montrose Forfarshire BT114 7
David Dunbar— Larne Antrim BT114 7
David Dunbar—Pitsligo— BT114 7
David Dunbar—Antrim -Antrim BT114 7
David Dunbar—Donaghadee -Down BT113 254
David Dunbar 1800 Pitsligo Aberdeenshire BT113 128
David Dunbar 1830 Larne Antrim BT113 28

The National Archives' catalogue
BT - Records of the Board of Trade and of successor and related bodies
Division within BT - Records of the Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen and successor

Register of Seamen’s Tickets, 1845-1854 – the originals are in series BT 113 (a surname index to which is in BT 114 – though any ticket numbers above 546,00 in the indexes do not appear in the registers). See Appendix 4 for an example of a typical register entry from 1845-1854. There do not seem to be any ‘reported voyages’ in BT 113 for the years 1849, 1850 and 1854.

Register of Seamen Series III, 1853-1857 – the originals are in series BT 116. See Appendix 5 for an example of a typical register entry from 1853-1857.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/h/C478

Re your last post, Jink20 -

There are no David M Dunbars on any of those particular lists.


New York, U.S., State and Federal Naturalization Records, 1794-1943

Several David Dunbars with no middle initial, on that list.
The earliest was 1868 (or 1858, depending on which page of the record you look at) with no identifying detail.



Re U.S. and Canada, Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s -

Only two David Dunbars listed, with no middle initial or age, and no info other than year of arrival - 1856 and 1864, both arriving at Philadelphia.


Re : New York, U.S., Index to Petitions for Naturalization filed in New York City, 1792-1989

Only one David Dunbar, no middle initial.
He's the same one as mentioned above, petition date 1868.
He was British, a gardener, living in Hastings, NY.
Looking at censuses and other records, that man married Hepburn Skinner in Penicuik in October 1854, they emigrated Oct/Nov 1854 , and they had several children.

First name(s) David
Bride's father's name Thomas Fairbrother
Last name Dunbar
City or town Chester
Marriage year 1878
County Cheshire
Marriage date 02 Sep 1878
Country England
Marriage place Chester
Reference item 3 p 185
Parish St. Mary's-On-The-Hill
Record set Cheshire Diocese Of Chester Parish Marriages 1538-1910
Spouse's first name(s) Martha
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Spouse's last name Fairbrother
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Spouse's age 19y
Collections from England, Great Britain


He was of full age, a musician residing at Overleigh, father David was a seaman.

Anyone with Ancestry worldwide could look at the following

New York, U.S., Index to Petitions for Naturalization filed in New York City, 1792-1989
Citizenship records
Name David M Dunbar

U.S. and Canada, Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s
Passenger lists
Name David M. Dunbar

New York, U.S., State and Federal Naturalization Records, 1794-1943
Citizenship Record
Name David M Dunbar

Possibility for an E Clark, if not I E Clark;
However, it doesn't help with the Dunbar side of the family

Henry Clark
in the 1871 England Census
Name Henry Clark
Age 27
Estimated Birth Year 1844
Relation Head
Gender Male
Where born Cheshire England
Civil parish Trinity
County/Island Cheshire
Country England
Registration district Chester
Sub-registration district Chester Cathedral
ED, institution, or vessel 4
Household schedule number 17
Piece 3730
Folio 43
Page number 4
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Henry Clark 27 Head
Elizabeth Clark 26 Wife
Sarah Clark 72 Mother
Elizabeth Powell 40 Sister
Albert Clark 1 Son
Henry Powell 11 Nephew
Anne Kuffel [Ruffel] 67 Mother-in-law [ widow of Benjamin ]


Henry Clarke
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name Henry Clarke
Registration Year 1864 [1864]
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration district Great Boughton
Inferred County Cheshire
Volume 8a
Page 484
Records on Page (Name)
Henry Clarke
Elizabeth Ruffell


Elizabeth is a sister of Harriet Ruffell.

A cousin of David 1856 should be one of Elizabeth's children - unless "cousin" is used loosely.. If the NOK was named in 1872, her children would be too young.

Interestingly, in the record you posted, Jink20, his occupation is given as "musician".

I don't see any I E Clark in St Mary's in 1871 census. Lots of other Clarks!

There's also this, posted by Shirley on page 1.
Can't see if there are more details, as I have no sub to Fold3:


David M Dunbar
in the Scotland, Ireland and Wales, Militia Attestation Papers, 1800-1915
Name David M Dunbar
Gender Male
Marital Status Single
Age 31
Birth Year abt 1856
Birth Place St Marys, Chester, Cheshire, England
Enlistment Date 4 Jul 1887
Enlistment Place Scotland
Regiment 91st Foot (Argyll & Sutherland Hldrs)
Service Number 1230


"Birthplace" is apparently wrong, but may be the fault of the transcription.
Sometimes residence is transcribed as birthplace.


ADDED:
Yes, that's our man. Was previously in 2nd West Yorks Regt:

David Dunbar
in the UK, British Army World War I Pension Records 1914-1920
Name David Dunbar
Gender Male
Residence Age 58
Birth Date abt 1856
Birth Place New York
Marriage Date 2 Sep 1878
Marriage Place St Marry's Chester
Document Year 1914
Regiment Name Lyl and Lane
Regimental Number 4435
Number of Images 5
Household List (Name) Relation to Soldier
David Dunbar
Martha Fairbrother Spouse
Rose Mary Dunbar Child
Edward Kitchman Dunbar Child

David Dunbar (56) attested at the age of 15 at Chester 15th March 1872

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1114/images/miuk1914a_084225-02106?pId=311410

re-enlisted 7th August 1894 address 35 Binns Road, Edge Lane, Liverpool having served 12 years 2nd West Yorkshire Regt. (14th Foot, 2nd Battalion)

1872- 5/10/78 Home
10/78-12/79 East Indies
12/79- 8/80 Afghanistan
8/80-1/86 East Indies
1-86 Home

NOK listed as Cousin I.E ? Clark, St Mary, Chester

This would account for why he is not on the 1881 Census

Perhaps the Cousin (if we're lucky) is the brother/sister of David M 1812 which could help identify David M's parents/ POB/DOB

ArgyllGran-

My bad......replace David (56) with David M Dunbar 1812-1856


Revisited FamilySearch page (computer generated account below)

When Mary R Dunbar was born in 1833, in England, United Kingdom, her father, David M Dunbar, was 21 and her mother, Mary Ann Spears, was 22. She had at least 1 son and 4 daughters with Robert Guiles. She lived in New York City, New York, United States in 1910 and Manhattan, New York City, New York, United States in 1910.

If that's David 1856 on the Ellis Island site, with slightly wrong age, we have to assume that he returned to England before 1891, though I don't see any record of that.

The same record from Ancestry:

David Dunbar
in the New York, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name David Dunbar
Gender Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality English
Age 25
Birth Date abt 1858
Place of Origin England
Departure Port Liverpool, England
Destination USA
Arrival Date 14 Apr 1883
Arrival Port New York, New York, USA
Ship Name Baltic

The image shows he was a labourer - but no helpful added info.

There's no record of David 1856 arriving in the UK in the first place (presumably with Harriet, and between 1856 and Harriet's death in 1859) , and no sign of him on censuses before 1891.
Martha and eldest son Thomas are with her parents in 1881.

(I'm discounting the elder of the Church of Latter-day Saints in Galston, Ayrshire in 1881 !)

The FS tree is certainly wrong about Mary Guiles.
Whether she was born 1833 or 1844, she couldn't possibly be a daughter of David 1856.

"David marion Dunbar who we think was born in 1807 who married Harriet ruffle Dunbar they moved or emigrated to new York in 1846"

At the Ellis Island National Museum of Immigration Foundation’s website the Passenger Search database allows you to look for family members who arrived at the Port of New York from 1820 to 1957.

Of the 53 David Dunbar results, 13 can be discounted as they do not contain a middle initial M or have a different middle name

Of the 40 left, discount those arrivals in the 1900's and not born in England and you are left with -

NAME OF PASSENGER Dunbar, David
PLACE OF BIRTH England
YEAR OF ARRIVAL 1883
AGE AT ARRIVAL 25

Doesn't help.......I know

However .........

1891 Census
Search Jessie Dunbar Father David Dunbar

Result

David Dunbar Head Married Male 34 1857 General labourer -
Martha Dunbar Wife Married Female 31 1860 Chester, Cheshire, England
Thomas A Dunbar Son Single Male 10 1881 Scholar Chester, Cheshire,
William Dunbar Son Single Male 8 1883 Scholar Chester, Cheshire,
Jessie Dunbar Daughter Single Female 4 1887 - Chester, Cheshire,
Elizabeth Z Dunbar Daughter Single Female 2 1889- Chester, Cheshire
Edna E Dunbar Daughter Single Female 0 1891 - Chester, Cheshire,


Next rabbit hole...................

I saw a tree on Family Search which suggested Mary Guiles (married name) was the daughter of David M Dunbar (1856), not daughter of David M (1807, Mariner)

It also suggests David (56) had the following children

Thomas Arthur Dunbar
Male
1881–1928
•
William Dunbar
Male
1883–Deceased
•
Jessie Dunbar
Female
1886–Deceased
•
Elizabeth Z Dunbar
Female
1889–Deceased
•
Dorothy Marion Dunbar
Female
1893–Deceased
•
David Francis Dunbar
Male
1896–Deceased
•
Charles Frederick Dunbar
Male
1898–1948
•
Edna Emily Dunbar
Female
1900–Deceased
•
Rose Mary Dunbar
Female
1900–Deceased
•
Edward Kitchener Dunbar
Male
1902–1949
•
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name Jessie Dunbar
Residence Date 22 April 1895
Residence Place 11 Seaville Street, Cheshire, England ************************
Father's Name David Dunbar
Father's Sex Male
Event Date

from 22 April 1895 to 1905

School Chester, Boughton-St Paul's School