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ArgyllGran
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5 May 2024 16:25 |
On the image of the 1850 NY Census above, the husband's first name looks like Danl (abbreviated version of Daniel ??) but I suppose it could be Davd - (abbreviated David)
No occupation is shown.
Ancestry suggests it relates to an immigration record for a Daniel Donbar , born c1808, arriving in NY from Ireland in 1847.
Not that that's anything to go by, as many of Ancestry's suggestions are ludicrous.
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ArgyllGran
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5 May 2024 16:45 |
The 1855 census does seem close enough to be the same family.
It says that David had been living in NY for 15 years, which would be from 1840, and he was naturalised. That doesn't fit with the 1838 naturalisation record which said he (if the same person) had been in NY for one year - but I'm willing to believe that the 1855 info isn't accurate.
The 1855 Census also says that Harriet had been in NY for 12 years, and was not naturalised.
However, there aren't any immigration records.
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ArgyllGran
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5 May 2024 16:52 |
???
Mary Ann Dunbar in the U.S., Find a Grave® Index, 1600s-Current Name Mary Ann Dunbar Death Date May 1853 Cemetery Green-Wood Cemetery Burial or Cremation Place Brooklyn, Kings County, New York, United States of America Has Bio? N
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Jink20
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5 May 2024 19:03 |
ArgyllGran Re your 5 May 2024 14:33
First name(s) Harriet Last name Ruffell Birth year 1820 Mother's first name(s) - Father's first name(s) Benjamin Father's last name Ruffell Baptism year 1820 Record set Cheshire Diocese Of Chester Parish Baptisms 1538-1911 Baptism date 26 Apr 1820 Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Place Chester, St Michael ********************************************** County Cheshire Subcategory Parish Baptisms Collections from England, Great Britain Country England
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Jink20
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5 May 2024 19:08 |
Not to be confused with this Harriet identified previously by ArgyllGran
First name(s) Harriet Last name Ruffell Gender Female Birth year 1836 Country England Father's first name(s) William Father's last name Ruffell Mother's first name(s) Ann Baptism year 1836 Record set Cheshire Diocese Of Chester Parish Baptisms 1538-1911 Baptism date 25 Sep 1836 Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Place Chester, St John the Baptist Subcategory Parish Baptisms County Cheshire Collections from England, Great Britain
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Jink20
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5 May 2024 20:22 |
Further to ArgyllGran Report 5 May 2024 14:33
Death Certificate of Harriet Dunbar aged 29 1 Mar 1859 at Ashtons Bldgs, Lower Bridge St, Chester shows her as " widow of David Dunbar-Mate Merchant Service"
Informant was Ann Ruffell
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alviegal
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5 May 2024 21:06 |
Chester newspapers of the 12 March 1859 read
DEATHS On the 1st inst. at Bridge Street, Chester, aged 29, Harriet, widow of the late Mr. David Dunbar (chief mate of the ship Driver) who was drowned on his voyage to New York.
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Jink20
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6 May 2024 00:22 |
Harriet Dunbar BIRTH 1830 DEATH 1 Mar 1859 (aged 28–29) BURIAL Overleigh Old Cemetery Chester, Cheshire West and Chester Unitary Authority, Cheshire, England PLOT G7332
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ArgyllGran
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6 May 2024 10:21 |
Well, I'm glad that's cleared up! That's definitely the right Harriet's death. The informant was either her mother or her sister.
The apparent 1820 baptism must be a mistranscription, or else a coincidence:
Harriet Ruffell Vital • England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000 Image Unavailable Name Harriet Ruffell Christening Date 26 Apr 1820 Christening Place Of This Parish Father's Name Benjamin Ruffell Mother's Name Ann Ruffell Event Type Other Image Number 574
Benjamin's daughter in 1841:
Henret Rafferty [ Ruffell on image ] in the 1841 England Census Name Henret Rafferty [Harriet Ruffell] Age 13 Estimated Birth Year abt 1828 Gender Female Where born Cheshire, England Civil parish St Michael Hundred Chester County/Island Cheshire Country England Registration district Great Boughton Sub-registration district Castle Division Neighbors Piece 129 Book 23 Folio 8 Page number 9 Household Members (Name) Age Benjaman Rafferty 32 Ann Rafferty 34 Henret Rafferty 13 John Rafferty 7 Ann Rafferty 4 Benjamen Rafferty 2
In 1851 Ann is on her own with children Benjamin, Mary, and Elizabeth. Harriet isn't with her. Benjamin senior , on the night of the census at least, is with the Henshaw family in Woodbank, Cheshire.
However, I've led everyone off track. Sadly, none of this helps find David Marion's ancestry.
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alviegal
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6 May 2024 12:42 |
Just googling David M Dunbar brings this up from https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/GKX8-CMH/david-m-dunbar-1812-1856
David M Dunbar was born in 1812 as the son of David Dunbar and Mary ann. He had at least 5 daughters with Mary Ann Spears. He died in 1856, at the age of 44.
David Marion Dunbar died at sea, he was the first mate on a clipper ship The Driver in 1856, his son also with the same name was born shortly after his death.
David M Dunbar Male1812–1856 • Male
Mary Ann Spears Female1811–Deceased • Female
Children (5)
Mary R Dunbar Female1833–1911 • Female Barbara Sellers Dunbar Female1834–1835 • Female Margaret Jane Dunbar Female1836–1837 • Female Elizabeth Burnett Dunbar Female1840–Deceased • Female Ellen Dunbar Female1845–Deceased • Female
Spouse
David M Dunbar Male1812–1856 • Male
Harriett Ruffell Dunbar Female1830–1859 • Female
Children (2)
Ellen Dunbar Female1845–Deceased • Female
David Marion Dunbar Male1856–1927 • Male
Parents
David Dunbar MaleDeceased • Male
Mary ann FemaleDeceased • Female
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ArgyllGran
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6 May 2024 13:34 |
Off at another tangent! Re Mary R Dunbar in Alviegal's post above:
I found these records yesterday and discounted them because this woman was apparently born in 1844, and she's not on the 1850 or 1855 censuses with David and Mary Ann or Harriet.
But maybe she lied and was really 11 years older.
Name Mary R. Guiles Sex Female Age 67 Birth Year (Estimated) 1844 Birthplace England Burial Date 13 Nov 1911 Marital Status Widowed Race White Father's Name David Dunbar <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Father's Sex Male Father's Birthplace England Mother's Name Mary Shears <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Mother's Sex Female Mother's Birthplace England Event Type Death Event Date 10 Nov 1911 Event Place Manhattan, New York City, New York, United States Certificate Number cn 33515 Cemetery Cypress Hills
Mary R Guiles in the 1910 United States Federal Census Name Mary R Guiles Age in 1910 67 Birth Date 1843 [1843] Birthplace England Home in 1910 Manhattan Ward 12, New York, New York, USA Sheet Number 4b Street West 129 Street Race White Gender Female Immigration Year 1848 Relation to Head of House Head Marital Status Widowed Father's Birthplace England Mother's Birthplace Scotland Native Tongue English Home Owned or Rented Rent Farm or House House Able to read Yes Able to Write Yes Enumeration District Number 0499 Years Married 50 Number of Children Born 5 Number of Children Living 2 Enumerated Year 1910 Neighbors Household Members (Name) Age Relationship Mary R Guiles 67 Head Ella G Guiles 42 Daughter
1905 census seems badly done - impossible for her to be Richard's mother (must be wife), and Ella's not Richard's sister.
Mary R Guiles in the New York, U.S., State Census, 1905 Name Mary R Guiles Birth Year abt 1845 Birth Place United States Age 60 Gender Female Race White Residence Year 1905 Residence Manhattan, New York, New York, USA Relationship to Head Mother Assembly District 31 Election District 34 Household Members (Name) Age Relationship Richard Guiles 50 Head Mary R Guiles 60 Mother Ella G Guiles 35 Sister
Richard Guiles in the New York, New York, U.S., Extracted Marriage Index, 1866-1937 Name Richard Guiles Gender Male Marriage Date 20 Nov 1890 Marriage Place Manhattan, New York, USA Certificate Number 13181
(No corresponding marriage record for Mary.)
??? Richard Guiles in the New York, New York, U.S., Extracted Death Index, 1862-1948 Name Richard Guiles Age 45 Birth Year abt 1860 (doesn't fit with 1905 census ) Death Date 25 Aug 1905 Death Place Manhattan, New York, USA Certificate Number 27367
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Jink20
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6 May 2024 14:25 |
I saw a tree on Family Search which suggested Mary Guiles (married name) was the daughter of David M Dunbar (1856), not daughter of David M (1807, Mariner)
It also suggests David (56) had the following children
Thomas Arthur Dunbar Male 1881–1928 • William Dunbar Male 1883–Deceased • Jessie Dunbar Female 1886–Deceased • Elizabeth Z Dunbar Female 1889–Deceased • Dorothy Marion Dunbar Female 1893–Deceased • David Francis Dunbar Male 1896–Deceased • Charles Frederick Dunbar Male 1898–1948 • Edna Emily Dunbar Female 1900–Deceased • Rose Mary Dunbar Female 1900–Deceased • Edward Kitchener Dunbar Male 1902–1949 • ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name Jessie Dunbar Residence Date 22 April 1895 Residence Place 11 Seaville Street, Cheshire, England ************************ Father's Name David Dunbar Father's Sex Male Event Date
from 22 April 1895 to 1905
School Chester, Boughton-St Paul's School
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Jink20
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6 May 2024 14:46 |
However .........
1891 Census Search Jessie Dunbar Father David Dunbar
Result
David Dunbar Head Married Male 34 1857 General labourer - Martha Dunbar Wife Married Female 31 1860 Chester, Cheshire, England Thomas A Dunbar Son Single Male 10 1881 Scholar Chester, Cheshire, William Dunbar Son Single Male 8 1883 Scholar Chester, Cheshire, Jessie Dunbar Daughter Single Female 4 1887 - Chester, Cheshire, Elizabeth Z Dunbar Daughter Single Female 2 1889- Chester, Cheshire Edna E Dunbar Daughter Single Female 0 1891 - Chester, Cheshire,
Next rabbit hole...................
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Jink20
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6 May 2024 15:32 |
"David marion Dunbar who we think was born in 1807 who married Harriet ruffle Dunbar they moved or emigrated to new York in 1846"
At the Ellis Island National Museum of Immigration Foundation’s website the Passenger Search database allows you to look for family members who arrived at the Port of New York from 1820 to 1957.
Of the 53 David Dunbar results, 13 can be discounted as they do not contain a middle initial M or have a different middle name
Of the 40 left, discount those arrivals in the 1900's and not born in England and you are left with -
NAME OF PASSENGER Dunbar, David PLACE OF BIRTH England YEAR OF ARRIVAL 1883 AGE AT ARRIVAL 25
Doesn't help.......I know
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ArgyllGran
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6 May 2024 16:06 |
If that's David 1856 on the Ellis Island site, with slightly wrong age, we have to assume that he returned to England before 1891, though I don't see any record of that.
The same record from Ancestry:
David Dunbar in the New York, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957 Name David Dunbar Gender Male Ethnicity/ Nationality English Age 25 Birth Date abt 1858 Place of Origin England Departure Port Liverpool, England Destination USA Arrival Date 14 Apr 1883 Arrival Port New York, New York, USA Ship Name Baltic
The image shows he was a labourer - but no helpful added info.
There's no record of David 1856 arriving in the UK in the first place (presumably with Harriet, and between 1856 and Harriet's death in 1859) , and no sign of him on censuses before 1891. Martha and eldest son Thomas are with her parents in 1881.
(I'm discounting the elder of the Church of Latter-day Saints in Galston, Ayrshire in 1881 !)
The FS tree is certainly wrong about Mary Guiles. Whether she was born 1833 or 1844, she couldn't possibly be a daughter of David 1856.
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Jink20
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6 May 2024 16:42 |
ArgyllGran-
My bad......replace David (56) with David M Dunbar 1812-1856
Revisited FamilySearch page (computer generated account below)
When Mary R Dunbar was born in 1833, in England, United Kingdom, her father, David M Dunbar, was 21 and her mother, Mary Ann Spears, was 22. She had at least 1 son and 4 daughters with Robert Guiles. She lived in New York City, New York, United States in 1910 and Manhattan, New York City, New York, United States in 1910.
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Jink20
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6 May 2024 23:11 |
David Dunbar (56) attested at the age of 15 at Chester 15th March 1872
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1114/images/miuk1914a_084225-02106?pId=311410
re-enlisted 7th August 1894 address 35 Binns Road, Edge Lane, Liverpool having served 12 years 2nd West Yorkshire Regt. (14th Foot, 2nd Battalion)
1872- 5/10/78 Home 10/78-12/79 East Indies 12/79- 8/80 Afghanistan 8/80-1/86 East Indies 1-86 Home
NOK listed as Cousin I.E ? Clark, St Mary, Chester
This would account for why he is not on the 1881 Census
Perhaps the Cousin (if we're lucky) is the brother/sister of David M 1812 which could help identify David M's parents/ POB/DOB
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ArgyllGran
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7 May 2024 09:04 |
There's also this, posted by Shirley on page 1. Can't see if there are more details, as I have no sub to Fold3:
David M Dunbar in the Scotland, Ireland and Wales, Militia Attestation Papers, 1800-1915 Name David M Dunbar Gender Male Marital Status Single Age 31 Birth Year abt 1856 Birth Place St Marys, Chester, Cheshire, England Enlistment Date 4 Jul 1887 Enlistment Place Scotland Regiment 91st Foot (Argyll & Sutherland Hldrs) Service Number 1230
"Birthplace" is apparently wrong, but may be the fault of the transcription. Sometimes residence is transcribed as birthplace.
ADDED: Yes, that's our man. Was previously in 2nd West Yorks Regt:
David Dunbar in the UK, British Army World War I Pension Records 1914-1920 Name David Dunbar Gender Male Residence Age 58 Birth Date abt 1856 Birth Place New York Marriage Date 2 Sep 1878 Marriage Place St Marry's Chester Document Year 1914 Regiment Name Lyl and Lane Regimental Number 4435 Number of Images 5 Household List (Name) Relation to Soldier David Dunbar Martha Fairbrother Spouse Rose Mary Dunbar Child Edward Kitchman Dunbar Child
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ArgyllGran
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7 May 2024 09:18 |
Interestingly, in the record you posted, Jink20, his occupation is given as "musician".
I don't see any I E Clark in St Mary's in 1871 census. Lots of other Clarks!
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ArgyllGran
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7 May 2024 09:31 |
Possibility for an E Clark, if not I E Clark; However, it doesn't help with the Dunbar side of the family
Henry Clark in the 1871 England Census Name Henry Clark Age 27 Estimated Birth Year 1844 Relation Head Gender Male Where born Cheshire England Civil parish Trinity County/Island Cheshire Country England Registration district Chester Sub-registration district Chester Cathedral ED, institution, or vessel 4 Household schedule number 17 Piece 3730 Folio 43 Page number 4 Household Members (Name) Age Relationship Henry Clark 27 Head Elizabeth Clark 26 Wife Sarah Clark 72 Mother Elizabeth Powell 40 Sister Albert Clark 1 Son Henry Powell 11 Nephew Anne Kuffel [Ruffel] 67 Mother-in-law [ widow of Benjamin ]
Henry Clarke in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915 Name Henry Clarke Registration Year 1864 [1864] Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun Registration district Great Boughton Inferred County Cheshire Volume 8a Page 484 Records on Page (Name) Henry Clarke Elizabeth Ruffell
Elizabeth is a sister of Harriet Ruffell.
A cousin of David 1856 should be one of Elizabeth's children - unless "cousin" is used loosely.. If the NOK was named in 1872, her children would be too young.
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