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ArgyllGran
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25 Sep 2023 08:54 |
Yes, he COULD have emigrated, but there are no travel or overseas records which are definitely of him, as opposed to any other man named Robert Coburn.
I agree with Greyghost. At the moment the most recent definite "sighting" of him is the date of transfer to the Royal Sussex Regiment on 20 March 1944.
His service record might take you a little further on, to the date of discharge, and possibly intended address.
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greyghost
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24 Sep 2023 22:42 |
I think you should attempt to get his Service records which may confirm DOB, names of both parents and possibly siblings.Also what date he was discharged from the Army and maybe where his intended residence was to be.
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Kelly
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24 Sep 2023 19:46 |
Could he have emigrated ?
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ArgyllGran
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24 Sep 2023 18:31 |
Robert Coburn in the Surrey, England, Regimental Rolls and Recruitment Registers, 1908-1947 Name Robert Coburn Military Enlistment Place Surrey, England Regiment Queen's Royal West Surrey Regiment Number 7011164
Transferred to " R Sussex R 20/3/44 (B198/6411) "
Records of Royal Sussex Regiment: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/c8e387ee-6864-480e-a39f-5713b2d71cbc
https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/royal-sussex-regiment
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ArgyllGran
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24 Sep 2023 17:57 |
We do not know definitely if the child born in 1910 is the same Robert Coburn, though year of birth and father's name match, so it's a good possibility.
We have not found his death in England/Wales/Ireland/Scotland, going by what records are available to us online.
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Kelly
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24 Sep 2023 17:13 |
Grey Ghost I think you have Found our Robert Coburn https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01564/1631365.pdf
Looking at ErikaH's suggestion of him being Irish - this is a 1910 Robert Coburn birth with father Robert - who in 1910 was a Labourer
Name ROBERT COBURN Date of Birth 01 July 1910 Group Registration ID 486828 SR District/Reg Area Lisburn Sex Male Mother's Birth Surname BELSHAW
Image - born at McKeown Street, Lisburn. Mother Agnes
So we have his birth and his marriage: obert Coburn was 29 when he married Anna Elizabeth Violet Clark she was 24
They married On the 28th October 1939 in South End on Sea
Private - Queen Royal Regiment Number 7011164 - Lympne Camp in Kent.
We just need his death :-(
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ArgyllGran
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24 Sep 2023 16:41 |
Re Ancestry trees claiming that Annie/Anna married William Thomas Clark -
never believe anything on someone else's tree without checking it out yourself.
The two trees which mention that marriage do not provide any proof.
One (possibly yours, Kelly ?) states that William also married a Lillian Cullum - no proof, or indeed record, of that either. It states that he had a daughter Eileen Patricia Clark, born in Hammersmith in 1923 - there is no such birth on FreeBMD.
There are 10 Clark/Cullum births in Hammersmith 1917 - 30. But no Eileen Patricia. Those 10 children will be the offspring of this couple:
Marriages Dec 1916 (>99%) Clark Victor H Cullum Hammersmith 1a 505 Cullum Minnie E Clark Hammersmith 1a 505
The other tree which mentions a marriage to William, also says that she later married an unnamed American - but with no further details. That tree says that William married a Winifred Clark (after his marriage to Annie?? No dates given), and had a daughter Winifred, born 1921 in Southend-on-Sea. Needless to say, there's no record of that marriage on FreeBMD, nor of the supposed daughter's birth, either.
That tree also contradicts itself. The claim about Winifred Clark shows up when you enter the tree via Annie's details, But if you start by looking for William, it doesn't name any wife or children for him.
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greyghost
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24 Sep 2023 16:18 |
Have a read about those medals here - basically anyone who served in a WW1 theatre of war was awarded the two he got.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/first-world-war-service-medals
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greyghost
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24 Sep 2023 16:12 |
Parents marriage - from the irish genealogy website
Party 1 Name ROBERT COBURN Party 2 Name AGNES BELSHAW Date of Event 02 June 1906 Group Registration ID 1882708 SR District/Reg Area Lisburn Image
From original - married at the Independent Church in the Town of Lisburn Both of full age. Bachelor and spinster Robert - a Labourer of 27 Sloan Street, Lisburn s/o William a Labourer Agnes of Antrim Street, Lisburn d/o James a Labourer Witnesses - Thomas Curry and Agnes ?Gowdy
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greyghost
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24 Sep 2023 15:57 |
1911 census of Ireland - the family of the Robert who was born in 1910 Lisburn who may or may not be yours
Census Years1911AntrimLisburnAntrim PlaceResidents of a house Residents of a house 3 in Antrim Place (Lisburn, Antrim)
Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living Coburn Robert 30 Male Head of Family Church of Ireland Co Antrim General Labourer Read and write - Married - - - - Coburn Agnes 26 Female Wife Church of Ireland Co Down Weaver Cambrio Read and write - Married - 6 4 3 Coburn William 3 Male Son Church of Ireland Co Antrim - - - - - - - - Coburn Maggie 1 Female Daughter Church of Ireland Co Antrim - - - - - - - - Coburn Robert Male Son Church of Ireland Co Antrim - - - - - - - - Stuart Hannah 60 Female Servant Church of Ireland Co Down Nurse Domestic Cannot read - Widow - - - -
There was no 1921 census of ireland. It was instead taken in 1926 and has a 100year closure
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Kelly
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24 Sep 2023 15:51 |
We had no idea James Henry Clark had medals, His grand - daughter is writing an email as we speak :)
We do know his Brother William Thomas Clark was in the trenches, he was a butcher, he got shot in the hand
He was definitely from Bethnal Green
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ErikaH
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24 Sep 2023 14:48 |
The OP's last post is an exact copy of the earlier one which was answered....................
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nameslessone
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24 Sep 2023 14:44 |
Erika explained earlier about the closed records on the 1939 index. You can only get them opened with a death certificate. Use freebmd and the irish sites already mentione dto try and find the marriage of Annie clark. You can apply to the MOD for Roberts army service records. It may take some time to get them. Greyghost gave the the link on how to do this yesterday.
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Kelly
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24 Sep 2023 14:35 |
Thanks Everyone
You have the right family - My mother in Law Was Jessica Clark.
Her Mother was Annie Elizabeth Violet Clark. She had 3 daughters Patricia, Sheilha the one born to Robert Coburn and who was adopted and Our Jessica.
Is there a record of Annie Clark and William marrying ? as William was her uncle ( Dads Brother)
Does record Officially closed mean I can't access it ?
I can't find death record on CWGC
Annie Elizabeth Clark died in 1987. She was Clark as her maiden name was Clark.
We don't know if Robert Was Irish , he may have been.
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greyghost
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24 Sep 2023 13:49 |
There are several Robert Coburn marriages showing on freebmd but without buying the certificates there is no way to know if any are him.
Use this site to check for deaths which go up to 2019 but miss 1948-1983 inc. when you can use freebmd instead https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp#Results
It gives ages against the year of death so you could see if any are around the right age for a Robert born c1910. But any information is only as good as the person giving it knows
The site is free to use, but you need to register. Certificates are available for b,m,d through the site but info otherwise only for b and d
Deaths on the Irish genealogy site posted by ErikaH go up to 1972 online (50 year closure. Marriages to 1947 (75 year closure)
Northern Ireland specific records from 1922 are here, but there are earlier records - https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/search-gronis-online-records Again there are disclosure dates of births under 100years, marriages 75 years and deaths 50 years
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ArgyllGran
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24 Sep 2023 13:48 |
There are no marriages or deaths (1939-2000) of anyone named Robert Coburn on irishgenealogy.ie
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ErikaH
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24 Sep 2023 13:37 |
Try looking yourself on freebmd........OR Irish genealogy site
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
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Kelly
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24 Sep 2023 13:29 |
Great thank you , i have some records to find . Can any one see another marriage for him or a death?
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greyghost
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24 Sep 2023 13:26 |
Royal Tank Corps Enlistment Records, 1919-1934 Bethnal Green, London, England
First name(s) James H Last name Clark Birth county London Birth country England Age 20 Tank corps number 312108 Birth year 1893 Previous service number 4941 Service number 312108 Previous regiment Lancers Regiment Royal Tank Corps Record set Royal Tank Corps Enlistment Records, 1919-1934 Attestation year 1913 Category Military, armed forces & conflict Enlistment date 1 Oct 1913 Subcategory Regimental & Service Records Birth parish Bethnal Green Collections from Great Britain, England Birth town London
From original - Attested 1/10/1913 at Shatford a Carman at the time. Born Bethnal Green , London, Middx
Wife - Mary Killeen married Dublin 25.11.1914 Children Annie Elizabeth Violet born Dublin 18.5.1915 James Daniel born 27.2.1919 Dublin deceased 12.3.19 Frances William born 18.6.1920 Dublin William Thomas born 18.6.1920 Dublin
Went with BEF (British Expeditionary Force) 19.1.1916 to 2.2.1919. Gassed 1.12.1917 Discharged 30.9.1925 at Canterbury as a Trooper Para 484 (V11) King's Regulations Awarded British and Victory medals
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greyghost
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24 Sep 2023 12:59 |
5th Royal Irish Lancers - originally formed in 1689 as James Wynne's Regiment of Dragoons. Renamed a couple of times and erased from Army records in late 1790's due to treachery within ranks during the Irish rebellion. Reformed 1858, keeping it's old number and title but losing the order of precedence and converted to a Lancer regiment, going again through various titles until the 5th (or Royal Irish) Lancers.
Served 2nd Boer War, returned to Ireland and involved in the Curragh incident in 1914 before returning to England until the outbreak of WW1. Disbanded 1921, raised again before amalgamating and becoming 16th/5th Lancers and via various other titles became The Queen's Royal Lancers in 1993 and the Royal Lancers in 2015.
The Regimental Museum is at Thoresby Hall in Nottinghamshire
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