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Robert Coburn

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

greyghost

greyghost Report 24 Sep 2023 13:49

There are several Robert Coburn marriages showing on freebmd but without buying the certificates there is no way to know if any are him.

Use this site to check for deaths which go up to 2019 but miss 1948-1983 inc. when you can use freebmd instead
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp#Results

It gives ages against the year of death so you could see if any are around the right age for a Robert born c1910. But any information is only as good as the person giving it knows

The site is free to use, but you need to register. Certificates are available for b,m,d through the site but info otherwise only for b and d

Deaths on the Irish genealogy site posted by ErikaH go up to 1972 online (50 year closure. Marriages to 1947 (75 year closure)

Northern Ireland specific records from 1922 are here, but there are earlier records - https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/search-gronis-online-records
Again there are disclosure dates of births under 100years, marriages 75 years and deaths 50 years

Kelly

Kelly Report 24 Sep 2023 14:35

Thanks Everyone

You have the right family - My mother in Law Was Jessica Clark.

Her Mother was Annie Elizabeth Violet Clark. She had 3 daughters
Patricia, Sheilha the one born to Robert Coburn and who was adopted and Our Jessica.

Is there a record of Annie Clark and William marrying ? as William was her uncle ( Dads Brother)

Does record Officially closed mean I can't access it ?

I can't find death record on CWGC

Annie Elizabeth Clark died in 1987. She was Clark as her maiden name was Clark.

We don't know if Robert Was Irish , he may have been.

nameslessone

nameslessone Report 24 Sep 2023 14:44

Erika explained earlier about the closed records on the 1939 index. You can only get them opened with a death certificate.
Use freebmd and the irish sites already mentione dto try and find the marriage of Annie clark.
You can apply to the MOD for Roberts army service records. It may take some time to get them. Greyghost gave the the link on how to do this yesterday.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 24 Sep 2023 14:48

The OP's last post is an exact copy of the earlier one which was answered....................

Kelly

Kelly Report 24 Sep 2023 15:51

We had no idea James Henry Clark had medals, His grand - daughter is writing an email as we speak :)

We do know his Brother William Thomas Clark was in the trenches, he was a butcher, he got shot in the hand

He was definitely from Bethnal Green

greyghost

greyghost Report 24 Sep 2023 15:57

1911 census of Ireland - the family of the Robert who was born in 1910 Lisburn who may or may not be yours

Census Years1911AntrimLisburnAntrim PlaceResidents of a house
Residents of a house 3 in Antrim Place (Lisburn, Antrim)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
Coburn Robert 30 Male Head of Family Church of Ireland Co Antrim General Labourer Read and write - Married - - - -
Coburn Agnes 26 Female Wife Church of Ireland Co Down Weaver Cambrio Read and write - Married - 6 4 3
Coburn William 3 Male Son Church of Ireland Co Antrim - - - - - - - -
Coburn Maggie 1 Female Daughter Church of Ireland Co Antrim - - - - - - - -
Coburn Robert Male Son Church of Ireland Co Antrim - - - - - - - -
Stuart Hannah 60 Female Servant Church of Ireland Co Down Nurse Domestic Cannot read - Widow - - - -

There was no 1921 census of ireland. It was instead taken in 1926 and has a 100year closure

greyghost

greyghost Report 24 Sep 2023 16:12

Parents marriage - from the irish genealogy website

Party 1 Name ROBERT COBURN
Party 2 Name AGNES BELSHAW
Date of Event 02 June 1906
Group Registration ID 1882708
SR District/Reg Area Lisburn
Image

From original - married at the Independent Church in the Town of Lisburn
Both of full age. Bachelor and spinster
Robert - a Labourer of 27 Sloan Street, Lisburn s/o William a Labourer
Agnes of Antrim Street, Lisburn d/o James a Labourer
Witnesses - Thomas Curry and Agnes ?Gowdy

greyghost

greyghost Report 24 Sep 2023 16:18

Have a read about those medals here - basically anyone who served in a WW1 theatre of war was awarded the two he got.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/first-world-war-service-medals

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Sep 2023 16:41

Re Ancestry trees claiming that Annie/Anna married William Thomas Clark -

never believe anything on someone else's tree without checking it out yourself.

The two trees which mention that marriage do not provide any proof.

One (possibly yours, Kelly ?) states that William also married a Lillian Cullum - no proof, or indeed record, of that either.
It states that he had a daughter Eileen Patricia Clark, born in Hammersmith in 1923
- there is no such birth on FreeBMD.

There are 10 Clark/Cullum births in Hammersmith 1917 - 30. But no Eileen Patricia.
Those 10 children will be the offspring of this couple:

Marriages Dec 1916 (>99%)
Clark Victor H Cullum Hammersmith 1a 505
Cullum Minnie E Clark Hammersmith 1a 505


The other tree which mentions a marriage to William, also says that she later married an unnamed American - but with no further details.
That tree says that William married a Winifred Clark (after his marriage to Annie?? No dates given), and had a daughter Winifred, born 1921 in Southend-on-Sea.
Needless to say, there's no record of that marriage on FreeBMD, nor of the supposed daughter's birth, either.

That tree also contradicts itself.
The claim about Winifred Clark shows up when you enter the tree via Annie's details,
But if you start by looking for William, it doesn't name any wife or children for him.

Kelly

Kelly Report 24 Sep 2023 17:13

Grey Ghost I think you have Found our Robert Coburn
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01564/1631365.pdf

Looking at ErikaH's suggestion of him being Irish - this is a 1910 Robert Coburn birth with father Robert - who in 1910 was a Labourer

Name ROBERT COBURN
Date of Birth 01 July 1910
Group Registration ID 486828
SR District/Reg Area Lisburn
Sex Male
Mother's Birth Surname BELSHAW

Image - born at McKeown Street, Lisburn. Mother Agnes

So we have his birth and his marriage: obert Coburn was 29 when he married Anna Elizabeth Violet Clark she was 24

They married On the 28th October 1939 in South End on Sea

Private - Queen Royal Regiment Number 7011164 - Lympne Camp in Kent.

We just need his death :-(

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Sep 2023 17:57


We do not know definitely if the child born in 1910 is the same Robert Coburn, though year of birth and father's name match, so it's a good possibility.

We have not found his death in England/Wales/Ireland/Scotland, going by what records are available to us online.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Sep 2023 18:31

Robert Coburn
in the Surrey, England, Regimental Rolls and Recruitment Registers, 1908-1947
Name Robert Coburn
Military Enlistment Place Surrey, England
Regiment Queen's Royal West Surrey
Regiment Number 7011164

Transferred to " R Sussex R 20/3/44 (B198/6411) "


Records of Royal Sussex Regiment:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/c8e387ee-6864-480e-a39f-5713b2d71cbc

https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/royal-sussex-regiment

Kelly

Kelly Report 24 Sep 2023 19:46

Could he have emigrated ?

greyghost

greyghost Report 24 Sep 2023 22:42

I think you should attempt to get his Service records which may confirm DOB, names of both parents and possibly siblings.Also what date he was discharged from the Army and maybe where his intended residence was to be.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 25 Sep 2023 08:54

Yes, he COULD have emigrated, but there are no travel or overseas records which are definitely of him, as opposed to any other man named Robert Coburn.

I agree with Greyghost.
At the moment the most recent definite "sighting" of him is the date of transfer to the Royal Sussex Regiment on 20 March 1944.

His service record might take you a little further on, to the date of discharge, and possibly intended address.

Kelly

Kelly Report 26 Sep 2023 07:14

Thank you I’ve written a letter :)

Kelly

Kelly Report 26 Sep 2023 17:27

The military records are asking for Roberts death certificate:(

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 26 Sep 2023 17:39

You'll have to try again in 2027!

"You do not have to provide a death certificate. But without one, information may be withheld unless the person either:
died in service
[or]
was born more than 116 years ago"
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-records-of-service/apply-for-the-records-of-a-deceased-serviceperson

Kelly

Kelly Report 27 Sep 2023 14:55

Ok after family digging it seems Robert known as Bobby died around 1979. He lived in Finchley London with his Italian partner called Rachel

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 27 Sep 2023 15:03

IF the info is accurate..........you will be able to find the death yourself on freebmd