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Ooops I forgot the 3rd family - My line

James Kelly abt 1801 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 40
Janet Kelly nee Hogg abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 30
Elizabeth Kelly abt 1824 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 17
John Kelly abt 1826 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 15
Janet Kelly abt 1828 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 13
Cathraine Kelly abt 1831 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 10
Mary Kelly abt 1833 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 8
Margaret Kelly abt 1835 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 6
George Kelly abt 1837 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 5

My dad wrote: James Kelly's lease of Canty Bay and the Bass Island was for a period of nineteen years, from 1845 to 1856

You found a death of James Kelly 1849

OK so my James Kelly - Born in White Kirk 1800 husband to Janet Hogg. Keeper of Bass rock, Tacksman to Canty Bay , Shark Killer extraordinaire, bearer of long line of golf professionals, Hero of the seas is said to have died 1849 aged 49.

Keeper James Kelly’s death would appear to have been sudden and unexpected; there is, moreover, no indication of how it came about. In September 1843 he was engaged as usual in his business; not so long thereafter, probably at the November term immediately following, we find him replaced, as lessee and keeper by George Adams.

Three Kelly Fishing Families were reported to living in Canty bay on the 1841 census

1841 Scottish Census

Parish Number 731Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman


Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman
Ages

Elizabeth Kelly nee Hogg abt 1806 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 35
John Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 30
Janet Kelly abt 1831 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 10
James Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 5
Elizabeth Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 3


Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman

James Kelly abt 1776 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick Age 65 ( father)
Mary Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick Age 30
( D in law )
Richard Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick Age 30 ( son )
Robert Kelly abt 1816 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick Age 25 ( Son )
James Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick Age 5 Gson)
Ellen Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick age 3 Gdau)
Isabella Kelly abt 1840 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick Age1 (Gdau)

It looks like two Kelly Brothers married two Hogg sisters not sure of the relationship to the 3rd house hold

1841 is the earliest census.

In Scotland , birth certs were only issued from 1855 onwards.
Before that there are only baptism records, if anything at all.

Info on Scotland's People site about Scottish records:

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/guides/record-guides/record-guides-alphabetical

Sorry having CT scan today

You've taken the Kelly's back another generation back,

I love the newspaper clip. Its amazing it made National news

That's really interesting - We know William is Mary Thomson's Father so Janet was her mother.

So was Thomson her maiden and married name ? Was she related to her husband ?

Is 1841 the earliest census you can get ? Whats the earliest year you can get a birth certificate from?

I was told that Mary Thomson died:in 1922 not 1837 - Did you mean Mary Thomson birth was 1837? if so yes it was
Died aged 84
Dwelling: 7 Heriot Place, Haddington, North Berwick Scotland

???

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Prestonpans, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Household members (6 people)
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
James Thomson Male Seaman 50 1791 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
William Thomson Male seaman 30 1811 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Janet Thomson Female 25 1816 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
George Thomson Male 6 1835 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Milly Thomson Female 12 1829 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Mary Thomson Female 2 1839 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
High Street, Prestonpans, John Walker, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Household members (3 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Thomson Head
Widower Male 32 1819 Sailor Prestonpans, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
George Thomson Son
Unmarried Male 15 1836 Coal miner Prestonpans, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Mary Thomson Daughter
- Female 13 1838 - Prestonpans, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland


There is a tree on ancestry with a printout for Janet Thomson. She's buried at Prestonpans Parish Church 7 Aug 1848.


https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/64f1eab2f493fd2eed89453b?locale=en


I think this is her death mistranscribed on SP.


JOHNSTON
JANET
-----
39
F
07/08/1848
718
90 / 262
Prestonpans


In short, I don't think the William who married Mary Buchan is your line.

THOMSON
WILLIAM
JANET THOMSON/FR2348 (FR2348)
18/12/1831
718
90 / 65
Prestonpans


Name Janet Thomson
Gender Female
Marriage Date 18 Dec 1831
Marriage Place Prestonpans, East Lothian, Scotland
Father
James Thomson
Spouse
William Thomson


If this is Mary Thomson/ Kelly 1837's death, I would say that the above is her parents' marriage.

KELLY
MARY
84
MMN THOMSON
F
1922
713 / 22
North Berwick

same person.

THOMSON
MARY
84
THOMSON
F
1922
713 / 22
North Berwick

First name(s) James
Mother's last name Whitecross
Last name Kelly
Residence Whitekirk, East Lothian, Scotland
Sex Male
Place Whitekirk
Birth year 1802
County Haddingtonshire (East Lothian)
Baptism year 1802
Country Scotland
Baptism date 10 Jun 1802
Record set Scotland, Parish Births & Baptisms 1564-1929
Baptism place WHITEKIRK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Father's first name(s) James
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Father's last name Kelly
Collections from Great Britain, Scotland
Mother's first name(s) Janet

Newspaper clipping from

SHARK CAUGHT IN THE FIRTH OF FORTH

On Wed last week the boat's crew of Mr James Kelly of Cantabay ( a few miles east of the town of North Berwick), when fishing for herrings in Dunbar Bay, were much surprised in finding a shark of great size entangled in their nets, which they with great difficulty succeeded in getting into their boat, where they accomplished it's destruction, but not before one of the crew had his arm slightly lacerated. The monster was upwards of 7 foot in length, 3 foot 9 inches in circumference, 23 inches across the tail, had 3 rows of formidable teeth and was supposed to weigh from 10 cwt to 12 cwt. Mr Kelly intends preserving the skeleton for the inspection of the future visitors to the Bass Rock, of which he is the tacksman.

25 Sept 1838, Saint James' Chronicle, London

This is just one of the papers that carried this report. It was reported in Ireland, Kent, Liverpool and many other places throughout Britain.

Thank You Thank You Thank you

It seems that Golf & Fishing are woven through the fabric of the Kellys of Canty Bay

Your opening post contains this:

JANET KELLY, b. May 24, 1863, NORTH BERWICK East Lothian Scotland; d. October 4, 1925. Married David Thomson we want to confirm her son was James Kelly Thomson – Golf Professional


James Kelly Thomson
in the U.S., World War II Draft Registration Cards, 1942
Name James Kelly Thomson
Gender Male
Race White
Birth Date 21 Mar 1894
Birth Place North Berwick, Scotland <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Residence Place Schenectady, New York, USA
Military Draft Date 1942
Occupation Self Golf Pro
Height 6
Eye Color Gray
Hair Color Brown
Weight 155
Complexion Light
Next of Kin Florence G. Thomson


James K Thomson
in the New York State, Marriage Index, 1881-1967
Name James K Thomson
Gender Male
Marriage Date 18 Sep 1927
Marriage Place Schenectady, New York, USA
Spouse Florence G Teahan
Certificate Number 38590


James Thomson
in the U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014
Name James Thomson
Social Security Number 108-09-9103
Birth Date 21 Mar 1894
Issue year Before 1951
Issue State New York
Last Residence 12309, Schenectady, Schenectady, New York, USA
Last Benefit 12301, Schenectady, Schenectady, New York, USA
Death Date Mar 1980


Three James Thomson births (with no middle name stated) were registered in North Berwick in 1894.
The middle name Kelly will be a later distinguishing addition when he went to America.

Looking at the three birth certs (6 credits each on SP) will let you know which one is Janet & David's son, and see if the DOB matches the golfer's.


THOMSON
JAMES
M
1894
713 / 22
North Berwick


THOMSON JAMES
M
1894
713 / 82
North Berwick

THOMSON JAMES
M
1894
713 / 38
North Berwick

Re Haddington District Asylum:

"As the need for specialist health care for those with mental issues became apparent, East Lothian built a hospital in Haddington in 1866. In the completely un-PC language of the day ‘lunatics’ were sent to Haddington District Asylum a place you might know better as Herdmanflat Hospital.

Contrary to the stereotypical view of Victorian mental health care, the hospital was often commended for the care of it’s patients with an 1876 Inspectors report noting:

‘ The asylum is cheerful, comfortable and homelike, the walls have been papered or painted, the windows fitted with valances. The meals are served with neatness and males and females take alternate places at the table’ "
https://www.johngraycentre.org/connect/blog/a-history-of-health/

Mary's death:

KELLY MARY [also listed as LIVINGSTON ]
71
mmn GLASS
F
1920
709 / 36
Haddington


We know Mary was at home again in 1901.
However, she may have been back in the asylum by 1911.

Only the daughters Catherine (29) and Mary (40) are recorded as living with Robert in 1911.

Probably Mary in 1911:

KELLY MARY
1911
F
62
709/ 19/ 4
Haddington
East Lothian

Spending 6 credits on SP would let you see exactly where she was.

Re Robert's wife "Margaret" in 1881 census -

I think that's either a mistranscription, or a mistake by the enumerator.
Catherine had only just been born, and her mmn is Livingston(e), so her mother was Mary.

[EDIT:
In fact, looking at the census on Ancestry, now I see that an Ancestry user has corrected it to Mary, as a mistranscription.]


There's no wife listed with Robert in 1891 - but he's described as "married", so probably Mary was elsewhere on the night of the census.

And here she is, in hospital:

Mary Livingstone Kelly
in the 1891 Scotland Census
Name Mary Livingstone Kelly
Age 44
Estimated Birth Year abt 1847
Relationship Patient
Gender Female
Where born North Berwick, Haddingtonshire
Registration Number 709
Registration district Haddington
Civil parish Haddington
County East Lothian
Address Haddingtonshire
Occupation Fisherman's Wife
ED Haddington District Asylum
Household schedule number 1
Line 17
Roll CSSCT1891_372

Catherine's birth:

KELLY
CATHERINE ANN M
mmn LIVINGSTONE
F
1881
713 / 12
North Berwick

She didn't marry.


Her death:

KELLY
CATHERINE ANN M
83
F
1964
713 / 20
North Berwick


Her parents' marriage:

KELLY ROBERT
LIVINGSTON MARY
1868
713 / 11
North Berwick

In 1871 census, Mary's mother is living with them.

You two are the nicest ladies

1841
So Elizabeth eldest daughter to James Kelly and his wife Janet Kelly nee Hogg
Got pregnant ( Unmarried ) at age 24 and had a daughter Janet Skead in Canty Bay

Head of House – James Kelly- Keeper of Bass Rock died 1849

1851 - Family moved to North Berwick Elizabeth - unmarried
1861 - Elizabeth ( Mum) not there and Nanny Janet is a pauper
1871 - Head _ Robert - 1844 -Youngest son of James and Janet Hogg has 3 Marys under his roof. Wife - Mary Kelly nee Livingstone 1848. Daughter - Mary 1870. Mother in Law - Widow -1815
1881 - Robert now has a wife called Margaret? ( Not sure of maiden name) and children: Mary, James, Janet & Catherine ( Possibly Our Mysterious Aunt Kate )
1891 - Robert now no wife with children: Mary, James, Janet & Catherine
1901 - Married now to a Mary again - Is this the same woman ?) and children: Mary, James, Janet & Catherine

I don't think Catherine Kelly born 1881 ever got married or had children - Do we know when she died?

My guess would be that he's one of the sons of this family. It seems to be the only family of Skeds in North Berwick in 1851.:

Alison Sked
in the 1851 Scotland Census
Name Alison Sked
Age 55
Estimated Birth Year abt 1796
Relationship [Head]
Gender Male [Female on image]
Where born Coldingham, Berwickshire
Parish Number 713
Civil parish North Berwick
Town North Berwick
County East Lothian
Address West Gate
Occupation Laundress
ED 3
Page 18
Household schedule number 96
Line 1
Roll CSSCT1851_193
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Alison Sked 55 Head - laundress
Thomas Sked 27 Son - engineer
Elizabeth Sked 25 Daughter - dressmaker
George Sked 22 Son - labourer
Mary Sked 20 Daughter - dressmaker
Peter Sked 18 Son - flesher
Robert Sked 16 Son - tailor's apprentice
Agnes Brodie 9 Grandaughter (Granddaughter)

Re Janet's marriage cert -
yes, it will show you her parents - but she may have named James Hepburn as her father, as he would be the only father she had known, having been her step-father since she was 8.

I very much doubt it will name her actual father.

You're welcome, Kelly!

Alviegal's correct.
We're not spending anything more than our already very well used subs to Ancestry or FMP!

Janet Sked

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Harbour Terrace, North Berwick, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Household members (7 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert Johnston Head
Married Male 32 1849 Fisherman Gifford, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Janet Johnston Wife
Married Female 34 1847 - North Berwick, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
John Johnston Son
- Male 8 1873 Scholar North Berwick, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Robert Johnston Son
- Male 6 1875 Scholar North Berwick, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
George Johnston Son
- Male 3 1878 - North Berwick, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Elizabeth Johnston Daughter
- Female 10 1871 Scholar North Berwick, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Martha Hepburn Sister-in-law
Unmarried Female 27 1854 Servant North Berwick, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland


Her marriage certificate should show you her parents.

Really must go now :-D :-D

Kelly, it's fine, honestly. ArgyllGran and I are not spending any credits finding information for you.
We both have subscriptions to either ancestry or fmp and scotlandspeople is quite easy to use when you have used it as much as we have :-D you pay to see certificates which you need to do at times and they usuall provide a lot of information you do not get from free searches.

Janet Sked was also Janet Johnstone


DEATH

JOHNSTONE
JANET
63
KELLY
F
1910
713 / 28
North Berwick


so her marriage


First name(s) Janet
Country Scotland
Last name Sked
Spouse's first name(s) Robert
Marriage year 1869
Spouse's last name Johnston
Marriage date 29 Oct 1869
Record set Scotland, Modern And Civil Marriages 1855-2019
Marriage place North Berwick,East Lothian,Scotland
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records