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I'm hoping someone can help me find the correct mum, here is her birth


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Dec 1853 (>99%)
FELMINGHAM Mary Ann Maria Depwade 4b 174

In the baptism register her mum is named as Elizabeth Felmingham and described as a single woman.

She is in the tree of one of my dna matches and we have a shared match who has Felmington's from Norfolk in her tree. The Felmingham's are on her paternal line which is where Ancestry say our connection is.

Looking for Mary in the 1861 census I can only find one. She is in the workhouse, Pullham St Mary Magdalen, Depwade, Norfolk. With her are Eliza aged 3 and Harriet aged 2. All three are described as the children of Sarah Felmingham who is listed as Inmate. There is a M A F in another workhouse but her place of birth is given as Norwich. There are several other births that could relate to this child.

Mary Ann Maria was baptised on Feb 23rd 1854, mum Elizabeth, a single woman
Eliza was baptised on Feb 6th 1857, mum Sarah described as a single woman
Harriet was baptised on Sept 30th 1858, illegitimate daughter of Sarah Felmingham

Mary and Eliza's baptism were at the same location.

I think one of the trees on Ancestory has Sarah as Sarah Elizabeth, the daughter of John Felmingham and Elizabeth Say, the others just have the name Sarah born 1822 born to the same couple.

John and Elizabeth also have a daughter Eliza born 1833 and I wondered if she may have been Mary Ann Maria's mum. She married in 1866 to a Thomas Guyatt and they had a daughter Mary Ann 1872-1873. Would she have named another daughter Mary Ann?

It looks like my dna matches connect to each other through this family. One of them is a 2nd/3rd cousin to my uncle and I'm really struggling to connect her to our tree. As my uncles grandmother and her mother were both illegitimate I'm beginning to think the connection is likely to be to one of the unknown fathers.

I'd really appreciate any advice/thoughts.

Chris

How did you work back to the person whose birth registration you have posted?

Have you considered obtaining the birth cert? You can download form the GRO site for £2.50

Harriet died in 1861


SARAH had sisters Eliza and Harriet………

Thanks for replying ErikaH.

The other dna match has a much smaller tree. It looks like Mary Ann Maria is his gt grandmother. I checked GRO for mum's maiden name which gave Felmingham same as Mary. I found the baptism which showed Elizabeth Felmingham. I then checked my other dna match's tree seeing as she is also matching my other dna match. Looking at her Felmingham family she is descended from John Felmingham and Elizabeth Say who have a Sarah and Eliza amongst their children.

I've looked for other Elizabeth's and the only other possible I found would have been only 10 when Mary was born. Her parents were John and Maria.

I've been trying to find a connection to the female match for quite a while now and have a second tree so that I can research her work for myself.

Yes I ordered the digital copy of the birth certificate. Unfortunately all I got was the last four columns of what I'm guessing is the one I want and the one either above or below it. The writing is very poor and no columns showing for date, place, name etc. I've emailed GRO

If the woman is someone’s direct ancestor, one assumes she married, so who was her husband?

I can’t figure out how she connects with you…….. :-S :-S

Posting the baptism for our reference, and exact place of baptism:

Mary Anne Maria Felmingham
in the Norfolk, England, Bishop's Transcripts, 1579-1935
Name Mary Anne Maria Felmingham
Gender Female
Record Type Christening (Baptism)
Baptism Date 23 Feb 1854
Baptism Place Redenhall With Harleston, St. John The Baptist, Norfolk, England
Father [No Name]
Mother Elizabeth Felmingham
FHL Film Number 1526670

The address is Wortwell.

The family with mother Elizabeth Say - just for reference, in case it turns out to be relevant:

John Telmingham
in the 1841 England Census
Name John Telmingham [Felmingham ]
Age 40
Estimated Birth Year abt 1801
Gender Male
Where born Norfolk, England
Civil parish Wortwell
Hundred Earsham
County/Island Norfolk
Country England
Registration district Depwade
Sub-registration district Harleston
Neighbors
Piece 758
Book 31
Folio 5
Page number 2
Household Members (Name) Age
John Telmingham 40
Elizabeth Telmingham 45
Sarah Telmingham 15
Susan Telmingham 10
Eliza Telmingham 7
Benjamin Telmingham 6
Theodocia Telmingham 3

Only part of the same family in 1851. The previous page (22) of the Register is missing from the image on Ancestry.


Theodoria Felmingham
in the 1851 England Census
Name Theodoria Felmingham [Theodocia]
Age 13
Estimated Birth Year abt 1838
Relation Daughter
Mother's Name Sarah Welesdale
Gender Female
Where born Wortwell, Norfolk, England
Civil parish Wortwell
County/Island Norfolk
Country England
Registration district Depwade
Sub-registration district Harleston
ED, institution, or vessel 4
Neighbors
Household schedule number 95
Piece 1821
Folio 81
Page number 23
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship

Sarah Felmingham 29 Daughter
Theodoria Felmingham 13 Daughter
Harriet Felmingham 9 Daughter
Pamala Felmingham 6 Daughter


Eliza Felmingham is one of the witnesses to Theodocia's marriage in 1856, in Redenhall with Harleston.

She's also a witness to the marriage of her sister Susan(na) in 1852.

She had a son Percy Howlett Felmington in 1886. She married Arthur Howlett in Sufolk in 1893.

Thank you ArgllGran for the additional info. Theodoria is the connection to my other dna match.

ErikaH my dna match N is a descendant of John Felmingham and Elizabeth Say on her Paternal line. All I know is that our connection is on her dad's line somewhere. This week I got a new match, P who is a shared matched with N. As they both connect to the Felmingham's in Norfolk I'm trying to find out if the Felmingham's are the connection to identifying the father's of my gt grandmother or her mother.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed the answers out there.

1901 census also shows she had a son Edward Felmingham born c1881

Also Ambrose Felmingham in 1887, and Isabel Howlett Felmingham in 1888.

ErikaH, thank you for that. Checking his birth reg there's two



Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Jun 1881 (>99%)
FELMINGHAM Edward Henry Depwade 4b 236
Births Sep 1881 (>99%)
Felmingham Edward Henry Depwade 4b 229

Checking on FMP both records have - for MMN

I couldn't find a baptism for Edward Henry but there is one for George Henry Felmingham, mum is named as Mary Ann on 28th May 1882

ArgyllGran thank you for the info. Isabel's birth was registered as Felingham, I only found it using F* and her first name

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Mill Road, Alburgh, Depwade, Norfolk, England

William Suckling Head Married Male 40 1841 Agricultural laborer Hempnall, Norfolk, England
Edward J Suckling Son Single Male 12 1869 Agricultural laborer Brook, Norfolk, England
Elizabeth Suckling Daughter Single Female 11 1870 Scholar Brook, Norfolk, England
Emily E Suckling Daughter Single Female 9 1872 Scholar Brook, Norfolk, England
Sarah J Suckling Daughter Single Female 8 1873 Scholar Hempnall, Norfolk, England
William T Suckling Son Single Male 6 1875 Scholar Hempnall, Norfolk, England
Alice M A Suckling Daughter Single Female 4 1877 - Hempnall, Norfolk, England
George H Suckling Son Single Male 2 1879 - Alburgh, Norfolk, England
Mary A M Felmingham House keeper Single Female 30 1851 Formerly geneal serv domestic (dom) Wortwell, Norfolk, England

Name Leonard Felmingham
Gender Male
Baptism Age 0
Record Type Christening (Baptism)
Birth Date 9 Feb 1884
Baptism Date 15 Nov 1884
Baptism Place Redenhall with Harleston and Wortwell, Norfolk, England
Father [No Name]
Mother May Ann Felmingham

Name Leonard Howlett Felmingham
Age 0
Estimated Birth Year abt 1884
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Death Registration Place Depwade, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Death Date Dec 1884
Inferred Death Place Norfolk, United Kingdom
Volume 4b
Page 166

Name Leonard Felmingham Felmingham
Death Age 9/12
Birth Date abt 1884
Death Date abt 1884
Burial Date 22 Nov 1884
Burial Place Redenhall with Harleston and Wortwell, England

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Dearhaw Wood, Denton, Depwade, Norfolk, England

James Clarke Head - Male 46 1825 - Suffolk, England
Sarah Clarke Wife - Female 56 1815 - Suffolk, England
Mary Felmingham Servant - Female 16 1855 WORTWELL Suffolk, England
Alfred Holland Servant - Male 13 1858 - Suffolk, England
Fredrick Gooderham Servant - Male 19 1852 - Suffolk, England

ErikaH thank you.

I do believe that Mary Ann Maria Felmingham is the granddaughter of John Felmingham and Elizabeth Say, just not sure which daughter was her mum. Although the tree on Ancestry has their daughter Sarah as Sarah ELizabeth, they also have attached her non conformist baptism record to their tree, the baptism record just has the name Sarah. The records of the daughter born after Sarah is shown as Maria Ann Maria but I'm of the thought it was Mary for her first name, so this is a family name.

The other alternative is Eliza but she had a daughter in 1872 she and her husband named Mary Ann

What are your thoughts please.