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No, I think you're right. I spent an age last night looking to see if Eliza MIGHT have been a Baldock before marriage or if there was any other connection to the Baldocks but I can find nothing. Poor little Harry.

Harry had a dreadful life. I dont believe he and Julia were married and I think she may have deserted him prior to her death in 1910.

Harry and the 2 daughters were in and out of the workhouse with Harry passing away in 1911 leaving the girls on their own. Nanny Flo was 14, her elder sister Lydia was in an "opthalmoc School" so she was on her own. Probably why she was such a tough lady.

I didnt know you could get away with non registration of birth either so thanks for that too.

Again, very grateful. Its hard doing this on your own, there is no one left alive who would have any knowledge as Nanny Flos eldest daughter Peggy & eldest son Terry have both passed. Makes me even more grateful for this wonderful community, everyone is always so kind and willing. Sending virtual hugs in thanks!!

Possible death of Elinor ????

GOBLE, ELEANOR 49
GRO Reference: 1844 D Quarter in MAIDSTONE Volume 05 Page 256

Harry might just be an illegitimate or otherwise unwanted child (or orphaned) farmed out to the Pointers - not necessarily any relation - and as ErikaH says, his birth may not have been registered.

Looking at Eliza Pointer in the 1871 census:

her marriage:

Marriages Mar 1864 (>99%)
Goble Eliza Maidstone 2a 617
Pointer Richard Maidstone 2a 617

Richard's mother and siblings are living next door in 1871:

Mary Ann Pointer
in the 1871 England Census
Name Mary Ann Pointer
Age 56
Estimated Birth Year 1815
Relation Head
Gender Female
Where born Sudeley Kent England [ Tudeley ]
Civil parish Nettlestead
Ecclesiastical parish St Mary the Virgin
Town Bow
County/Island Kent
Country England
Registration district Maidstone
Sub-registration district Yalding
ED, institution, or vessel 10
Household schedule number 28
Piece 937
Folio 131
Page number 6
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Mary Ann Pointer 56 Head
Sarah Ann Pointer 22 Daughter
Catharine Pointer 18 Daughter
Henry Maidstone 25 Boarder



Eliza herself was illegitimate:

Eliza Goble
in the England & Wales, Christening Index, 1530-1980
Name Eliza Goble
Gender Female
Christening Date 24 Jun 1832
Christening Place Yalding, Kent, England
Mother Elinor Goble


Elizabeth Goble
in the 1841 England Census
Name Elizabeth Goble
Age 7
Estimated Birth Year abt 1834
Gender Female
Where born Kent, England
Civil parish Yalding
Hundred Twyford
County/Island Kent
Country England
Registration district Maidstone
Sub-registration district Yalding
Neighbors
Piece 464
Book 9
Folio 7
Page number 6
Household Members (Name) Age
Ellinor Goble 40
John Goble 12
Elizabeth Goble 7

Eliza's brother John married Esther Reeves Cheesman in Malling in 1853.

His baptism:

John Goble
Vital • England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name John Goble
Sex Male
Mother's Name Eleanor Goble
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Christening
Event Date 6 Apr 1828
Event Place Yalding, Kent, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) Yalding, Kent, England


In 1851 John was a journeyman wheelwright, lodging in Yaldon.
Can't see Eliza in 1851 .


I suspect Harry was not related to the Pointers.

Until 1875, there were no penalties for not registering births…….bear that in mind

Also, people didn’t always actually marry, despite implying that they had……

That’s interesting, a boarder aged 5. I wonder if he is related to the wife Eliza?

Thank you for this, probably why I couldn’t find him!

I shall put my detective hat on and delve.

You really are a star.

Best wishes
Caroline

???

Harry Baldock
in the 1871 England Census
Name Harry Baldock
Age 5
Estimated Birth Year 1866
Relation Boarder
Gender Male
Where born Penshurst Kent England
Civil parish Nettlestead
Ecclesiastical parish St Mary the Virgin
Town Bow
County/Island Kent
Country England
Registration district Maidstone
Sub-registration district Yalding
ED, institution, or vessel 10
Household schedule number 29
Piece 937
Folio 132
Page number 7
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Richard Pointer 33 Head
Eliza Pointer 38 Wife - Yalding, Kent
Eliza Pointer 3 Daughter
Walter John Pointer 1 Son
Pierce James 38 Boarder
Harry Baldock 5 Boarder
William Badtin 48 Lodger


Penshurst and Edenbridge were both in the Sevenoaks reg district, and about 8 miles apart.

I have managed to get myself in a right old tangle.

Everything works beautifully until I come to Harry Baldock birth. There is nothing for Edenbridge as he has stated on the censuses but, as previously mention by ArgyllGran, census isn’t always correct.

I absolutely cannot find ANY record of marriage between Harry and Julia Stevens either. Even on their daughters birth certificate her name is Julia Baldock nee Stevens.

The only things I can find of her are on the census forms. I know she existed as she removed her 2 daughters from the workhouse, it just states removed by mother.

You have all helped me so much and I feel bad about asking again but this is such a wonderful community I am hopeful, fingers crossed and everything, that someone might be able to offer advice or point me where I am going wrong please.

Thanks in advance. Caroline

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
567, Old Kent Road, Camberwell, London & Surrey, England
Harrie S Hartnell Head Married Male 40 1851 Beerhouse keeper Somerset, England
Harrie Baldock Servant Single Male 24 1867 Barman Edenbridge, Kent, England

Just posting Florence and John Hunter's marriage.

Name Florence Baldock
Gender Female
Marriage Age 22
Record Type Marriage
Birth Date abt 1897
Marriage Date 30 Dec 1919
Marriage Place St Matthew, Essex Road, Islington, England
Father
Henry Baldock (dec)
Spouse
John Irvine Hunter
Register Type Parish Register


First name(s) John Irvine
Archive reference ADM 159/122/1035
Last name Hunter
Catalogue description Admiralty: Royal Marines: Registers of Service
Birth year 1892
Record set Royal Marines 1899-1919
Birth date 04 Nov 1892
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Service number 1035
Subcategory Regimental & Service Records
Enrolment date 03 Apr 1919
Collections from Great Britain, UK None
Division full text Royal Marines Divisional Engineers: Deal


HUNTER
JOHN IRVINE
FULTON
M
1892
605 / 240
Maybole



Name John Irvine Hunter
Age 59
Record Type Burial
Birth Date abt 1892
Death Date abt 1951
Burial Date 22 Nov 1951
Burial Place Barnet, London, London, England
Cemetery Hendon Cemetery and Crematorium
Grave Number 65633
Interment Number 65654



John Irvine Hunter
in the England, Andrews Newspaper Index Cards, 1790-1976

Name John Irvine Hunter
Publication Date 13 Nov 1951

This is a clipping asking his wife or kin to apply to the Treasury Committee re his estate (about £80) He died 13 Nov 1951 at 1 Kings Cross Rd, St Pancras and there is written at the bottom NOT FOUND P C 1952-1954


and his family.


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Kirkwynd (Waverley Place), Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
Household members (5 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Hunter Head
Married Male 39 1862 Iron moulder Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
Elizabeth Hunter Wife
Married Female 36 1865 - Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
Maggie F Hunter Daughter
- Female 12 1889 Scholar Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
>>John J Hunter Son
- Male 8 1893 Scholar Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
Helen P Hunter Daughter
- Female 3 1898 - Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
9, Barns Road, Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
Household members (5 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Hunter Head
Married Male 29 1862 Ironmoulder Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
Mary Hunter Wife
Married Female 30 1861 - Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
Maggie F Hunter Daughter
- Female 2 1889 - Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
Mary A Hunter Daughter
- Female 1 1890 - Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
Andrew T Hunter Son
- Male 0 1891 - Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland


HUNTER
JOHN
FULTON
MARY
1888
605 / 28
Maybole

Second marriage

HUNTER
JOHN
WILSON
ELIZABETH
1894
605 / 43
Maybole

There are several possible reasons why she's not showing up on the 1901 census:

Maybe she was with her family, but the enumerator missed her out by mistake when he transcribed his notes onto the final form.

Maybe she was staying elsewhere, and again was missed out by mistake.

Maybe staying elsewhere, and so badly mistranscribed that we can't find her.

Oh my goodness me, you absolutely wonderful people. THANK YOU SO SO MUCH.

Florence is my husbands beloved nanny Flo. She almost raised him and he adored her. She was a very tiny, very tough lady and, seeing all she endured, I understand why.

She remarried after divorcing John Hunter and changed the Hunter childrens name to O’Neill. Her son Terrence was my father in law.

I am beyond grateful for your help, as really am. I hope I am able to help others as you have helped me. Bless you x

Ps. Any ideas on why nothing on any census for Florence in 1901?

Remarriage for Florence (don't know what happened to John Hunter):

Marriages Dec 1933 (>99%)
Hunter Florence J O'Neill Uxbridge 3a 206
O'NEILL Edward J Hunter Uxbridge 3a 206


Florence O'Neill
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name Florence O'Neill [Julia O'Neill]
Gender Female
Marital Status Married
Birth Date 26 Oct 1897
Residence Date 1939
Address 55 Woodcroft Crescent
Residence Place Uxbridge, Middlesex, England
Occupation Unpaid Domestic Duties
Line Number 23
Schedule Number 213
Sub Schedule Number 3
Enumeration District Bvak
Borough Uxbridge
Registration district 127/1
Inferred Spouse
Edward O'Neill
Inferred Children
Margaret O'Neill
Terence O'Neill
Household Members (Name) Age
Jack Birch 28
Edward O'Neill 44
Florence O'Neill 42
Margaret O'Neill 20 - 17 Sept 1919
Terence O'Neill 15 - 5 June 1924 <<<<<<<<<<
This record is officially closed.


Deaths Dec 1980 (>99%)
O'NEILL FLORENCE JULIA 26OC1897 HILLINGDON 13 1112

The daughter Peggy's middle name was Lydia:

HUNTER, MARGARET LYDIA mmn BALDOCK
GRO Reference: 1920 S Quarter in HOLBORN Volume 01B Page 1297

However, I don't see any further sign of her, nor any of the family in 1939.
[EDIT: BUT SEE POST AT 21:51 ]

The son Terence's full name:

HUNTER, TERENCE EDGAR HENRY mmn BALDOCK
GRO Reference: 1924 S Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 343


Terence Edgar H Hunter
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Terence Edgar H Hunter
Death Age: 80
Birth Date: 5 Jun 1924
Registration Date: May 2005
Registration District: Hillingdon
Inferred County: Middlesex
Register Number: B49B
District and Subdistrict: 236/1B
Entry Number: 123

3 children born

Births sep 1920
Hunter Margaret L Baldock Holborn 1b 1297

Births Sep 1922
Hunter Ellen F Baldock Holborn 1b 1043

Death
HUNTER, ELLEN FLORENCE 0
GRO Reference: 1923 M Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 197

Births Sep 1924
Hunter Terence E H Baldock Islington 1b 343

1921 Census Of England & Wales
62, Shepperton Road, Islington, London & Middlesex, England
Household members (3 people)

First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
John Hunter Head Male 1895 25 Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland Constructional Engineer Staircases Lift Enclosuses Etc Light Steelwork Co, Engineers, 178 York Rd, Kings Cross N
Florence Hunter Wife Female 1897 23 Bermondsey, London, England Private Home Duties -
Peggy Hunter Daughter Female 1920 - Holborn, London, England - -

Lydia https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F00194%2F0101%2F4
St Anne's Roman Catholic School For Opthalmic Girls

???

Harry Baldock
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Harry Baldock
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Death Registration Place: St Olave Bermondsey, London, United Kingdom
Death Date: Sep 1911
Inferred Death Place: London, United Kingdom
Volume: 1d
Page: 276

OK…found Harry in 1911…born c1869, patient in Bermondsey Infirmary

Possibly Harry in 1891 ??? DOB doesn't match that in 1901 - but again, census info isn't always correct.

Harrie Baldock
in the 1891 England Census
Name Harrie Baldock
Gender Male
Age 24
Relationship Servant
Birth Year 1867
Birth Place Edenbridge, Kent, England <<<<<<<<<
Civil parish Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish St Phillips
Residence Place Camberwell, London, England
Registration district Camberwell
Sub registration district St George
ED, Institution or Vessel 28
Neighbors
Piece 493
Folio 26
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Harrie S Hartnell 40 Head
Harrie Baldock 24 Servant , barman, single

Where was HARRY in 1911?

Florence’s husband was born in Scotland…..could she have been up there in 1911?