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Or a dna match for a descendant of mystery child turns up for Jill

Certs would be the answer, obviously, but if Jill doesn’t wish to buy them, you’re at a dead end

With only one closed record there is no point in continuing a hopeless search. The information I just got from Jill about Sophia turning up in Saffron Walden in 1932 must have been what she told to her husband to be and Jill has always said the mystery child was born between 1928 and 1932. So I assume then she turned up childless! I will ask about that but it all points to the possible child being adopted. Thanks both of you, another unsolved mystery ??

Shirley posted the 1939 record for Sophie and Harold from FMP, showing two closed records.

BUT - FMP has got it wrong.

Looking at the image , there are only three people in the household, including only one closed record:

Ancestry's transcription (Sophie's middle initial mistranscribed):

Sophie I Wright
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Sophie I Wright
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 13 Feb 1907
Residence Date: 1939
Address: 103 London Road
Residence Place: Chelmsford, Essex, England
Occupation: Unpaid Household Duties
Line Number: 38
Schedule Number: 43
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: Dbpr
Borough: Chelmsford
Inferred Spouse:
Harold B C Wright
Household Members Age
Harold B C Wright 33
Sophie I Wright 32
This record is officially closed.


Presumably the closed record is Bryan.

So IF there was an earlier child, he/she must have been adopted, or at least living elsewhere.

Hmmm -

I don't think anything can be read into the fact of wearing black at her wedding. Depending on her personality, maybe it was a daring fashion statement!
The wedding was in January - maybe she just wanted to be warm.

Re Saffron Walden Isolation Hospital Records -
you say the hospital "had no records of her".

What records there are, are at the Essex Records Office, or with Saffron Walden Town Council, and not at the hospital:

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=2640

But unless the "nursing" records with SW Town Council include records of who the staff members were, it may be that there are no records of any staff.


Sophia "said she had no living relatives" - I wonder who she said that to, and in what circumstances?
Perhaps she thought it was true, if perhaps the family members had drifted apart.
Or perhaps she'd fallen out with them.
Or perhaps she didn't want word of her illegitimate pregnancy getting back to her family - depending on who she said that to.
Perhaps - - - perhaps - - - -


If one of the 1939 closed records is the mystery child, and if she had no child with her in 1932, that would seem to suggest that the child (if any) was born 1932-35.

[EDIT: BUT SEE NEXT POST. THERE'S ONLY ONE CLOSED RECORD ]


On the other hand, the child might have been born earlier than 1932, and adopted, and therefore not with her in 1939.

But you're probably right to say that there's no answer - at least not without buying certificates.


ADDED:

I don't see her on the Nursing Register 1932-35.

Yes your right I did say Bryan died in 1997 in first post but now it seems that was wrong and it was 2006! The lady doesn't seem to want to have anything in the way of documents and doesn't want to try and get Bryan's closed record opened. She told me this back in March, that's why I said my work here is done.
She has no evidence of a unknown sibling born before Bryan, just a comment years ago and a feeling.. because of the following: Sophia apparently turned up in Saffron Walden in 1932 to work as a sister at isolation hospital and said she had been working in London and had no living relatives( but her father Fred Simpson had several siblings)
She has contacted the isolation hospital asking for records of Sophia and they had no record of her.
The last cause of suspicion is that the wedding photo of Sophia and Harold B Wright in 1935, Sophia wore a black skirt and fur hat!! I don't think there will a answer to this one, do you?

???????

SIMPSON, GERALD 1932
GRO Reference: DOR Q4/2012 in HULL (550-1A) Entry Number 507777030

On ER 2007-12 in Hull

This male - or the female born 1928 - could be the closed entry on the following record. Olive is the one to whom I made reference some time ago


Edward Simpson 03 Apr 1882 Male Farmer (Own Account) Married 27 1
Edith Simpson 16 Jan 1896 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 27 2
Olive D Simpson 05 Apr 1925 Female Unpaid Assisting Father & Mother Single 27 3
The record for this person is officially closed.

Unfortunately, even if we find a Simpson/Simpson birth in some likely place in the years before 1935, there's still no way to know if that child could be the closed record or not - without buying birth certs, as ErikaH suggests.

For instance, going back to the four Driffield births - we've ruled out two of them, and one was a girl - which leaves the boy born in 1932.

But he's impossible to follow in later life from what's available to us online, so we can't tell if he might be Sophia's child or not.
I can't see him in 1939 - but DOBs aren't always correct on the 1939 Register, and in any case he could be a closed record, no matter who his parents were.

You stated in your opening post that the brother died in 1997, which is why I posted the various records I found.

The mother was employed at Saffron Walden hospital at the time of her marriage in January 1935

Why doesn’t Jill get copy birth certs? At £11.00 each, they are considerably cheaper than DNA, which is of no use in this situation

There were no Simpson/Simpson births registered in either Yarmouth or Hull in 1928-35.

There were four in Norfolk as a whole - but all girls.

I did take note of your message on 5th May and have just heard back from Jill and she confirmed that her brother was Bryan Charles born 1937, not Bryan Cecil Wright.
So no further forward with finding who the other closed record is on 1939 register, Bryan Charles Wright is the second closed record, almost sure of that at least. The only other info is that Sophia mentioned training in nursing at Great Yarmouth and Hull prior to her marriage in 1935. Thanks for your help

Bryan Charles Wright died 2005 in Oldham, Lancashire

Did you take note of the info I posted 5 May at 13.03?

Did the brother die in England/Wales?

Her mother Sophia changed her second name from Ann to Valarie at some point.

Her brother Bryan married Beth Whitehead in Yorkshire.

The lady I am helping first name is Jill born 1944. Her brother Bryan born in 1937 died aged 69. I am messaging her now for more info.

PM sent informing Nicola that members are still trying to help her. Opened......................

Is the person you are helping in possession of her birth cert?

What is her first name?

Posting for evaluation

WRIGHT, BRYAN CHARLES 1937
GRO Reference: DOR Q4/2005 in OLDHAM (0071C) Reg OC54B Entry Number 171

On ER 2002-2005

???????
Births Jun 1937 (>99%)
Wright Bryan C Simpson Saffron W. 4a 1487

the 1997 death tells a different tale

WRIGHT, BRYAN CECIL 1929
GRO Reference: DOR Q1/1997 in LUTON (3151B) Reg B52F Entry Number 117

The above death is THIS person

Births Sep 1929 (>99%)
Wright Bryan C Fensome Luton 3b 514

Marriages Sep 1951 (>99%)
SANDERS Mary L WRIGHT Luton 4a 391
WRIGHT Bryan C SANDERS Luton 4a 391