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Hello Kay

Oh thank you for your work, it is possibly Frank! I was unable to find his death certificate on the GRO because the online record stops in 1957, or have I misunderstood?

Is there anywhere else to view it/order it? The death certificate would surely show his date of birth.

I gather the 1911 information comes from the Census. So you have possibly found the family of my grandfather! It's so nice to know that the names of my great grandparents were Frank and Esther! He built coaches, amazing. And there are also all the names of my great aunts and uncles! Wow, it's so nice to know that.

I'm not understanding your second post, though. Violet Goss, are you saying Lily was named Lily Violet Wilkins, and then her married surname was Goss?

Also, Anna M Boyle - my grandmother was definitely Annie, not Anna, so that seems to be a mix-up. ErikaH has posted that Annie died in Plymouth in 1994 and that her surname was Wilkins. That would be right as I remember my father telling me that she reached a good age when she died (90 yrs).

Hello Erika

Thank you also for your detective work. :-)

If it is Lily, I did not know that she was 13 years older than my father, that surprises me because I did meet her. I searched for her on the GRO with the date you gave me of 1926, one comes up in Bury which is no-where near Plymouth, but if they were a military family, all is possible I suppose.

The GRO charges £11 for the certificate but is there a way to check if it is indeed the right one, or do I just have to buy it and hope for the best? This could potentially be expensive if I choose the wrong ones.

For example, I found 9 entries for Davis, Annie born in 1904. :-( How do I know which one it is?
I also found her death certificate in 1994 as you mentioned, but the GRO won't let me order a PDF for this date, which is a pain because I live abroad.
Would the death certificate show her birth place details, so I could eliminate 8 of the 9 birth entries for her name in 1904?

Douglas, I don't think that is him as Annie's maiden name was DAVIS, not Gater. And yes, I considered that perhaps he could be the result of an extra-marital affair but although I cannot be sure, I don't think that was the case. If it was, he was given to Annie because all the children were raised together.

I apologise if I am asking obvious questions, complete beginner here...

Thank you Kay and Erikah for your work, I certainly know more than I did a few days ago. You are both so very kind.

Best wishes
Aurore :-)

The 1911 census posted earlier is for Frank Edward C Wilkins born 1899

There is no birth record on freebmd for Frank Sydney Wilkins

The only record on FMP of the full name is for the award of the General Service Medal. 1918-62 to a Private in the RASC, which fits with your father’s birth cert. Info

Possible birth for Harry Gater, MMN Bailey, in qtr 4 1901 in Wolstanton

BUT….that doesn’t help with your line

You need one of Annie’s marriage certs to find out if she knew her father’s details

Stephen J Goss, MMN Gater, was born in Plymouth in 1957, which confirms that Lily was a Gater - NOT a Wilkins

Geoffrey Goss married Violet Gater in 1952 - as per freebmd
Actual date 5th July (FMP)

Harry Gater married Annie Davis in Gibraltar in 1922

1939 register has Harry Gater, DoB 3/9/1901 DIVORCED in SoT

He died in 1977

Connected.?subs needed for full details.


Doc True
A GIBRALTAR MARRIAGE.
A GIBRALTAR MARRIAGE.
made by the Jusuce3 at tto Gibraltar Police Court. for the payment by him of £1 per week mr the main• knance of his wife, Annie Gater, and their two children, ehould not be confirmed. The Magistrates' Clerk (Mr. 1). B. Mist read the evidenee giyen by the
21 June 1926 - Staffordshire Sentinel - Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire,


This is Annie death registration.1994.

England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007No Image
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Name: Annie Wilkins
Death Age: >>90<<
Birth Date: 22 Mar 1904
Registration Date: Nov 1994
Registration District: Plymouth
Inferred County: Devon
Register Number: E48A
District and Subdistrict: 4161E
Entry Number: 105

Two closed records in 1939 between Lily and Douglas - and one (Ronald?) after Douglas

Annie Gater age 25, occupation Cook, travelled from London to Gibraltar in 1929

Frank S Wilkins married Annie Davis or Gater in 1931 in Gibraltar

So Lily was not a Wilkins by birth - unless she was Frank’s child by a previous marriage

Explains the MMN on Douglas’s birth entry

You need the cert for factual info

The info posted above is not as per 1939 image as there is no female named Boyle on the page

Name: Lily Wilkins
[Violet Goss]
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 1 Jan 1926
Residence Date: 1939
Address: Granby Barracks
Residence Place: Plymouth, Devon, England
Occupation: At School
Line Number: 20
Schedule Number: 3
Sub Schedule Number: 21
Enumeration District: WEVI
Borough: Plymouth
Registration district: 276-3.
Inferred Father:
[No Name]
Inferred Mother:
Anna M Boyle----assumed Anna later re-married.to Boyle or its been mistranscribed.//mixed up.

Douglas’s birth shows MMN Gater on freebmd

Annie died in November 1994 in Plymouth - surname Wilkins

Annie’s DoB was 22 Mar 1904, as per 1939 register

Lily 1 Jan 1926
Douglas 21 Apr 1936

Welcome back Dawn.

This is possiby your grandfatehrs death registration.as its before 1969 only given age is supplied as later a date of birth would be listed.


ViewEngland & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
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Name: Frank S Wilkins
Death Age: 59
Birth Date: abt 1900
Registration Date: Jan 1959
[Feb 1959]
[Mar 1959]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Plymouth
Inferred County: Devon
Volume: 7a
Page: 755,



and possibly with his family in 1911,

Name: Frank Wilkins
Age in 1911: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Southsea, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Portsmouth
Search Photos: Search for 'Portsmouth' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Country: England
Street Address: 6 St Edwards Road, Southsea, Hampshire
Registration District Number: 90
Sub-registration District: Portsmouth and Mid Southsea
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Piece: 5617
Household Members:
Name Age
Frank Wilkins 41
Esther Wilkins 40
Frank Wilkins 11
Bessie Wilkins 9
Nellie Wilkins 8
Alfred Wilkins 7
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Franks father Frank is a Coach Builder.

Edit-- not the right person.

Hello!

Oh my, THANK YOU all so very much for your responses!
Such kindness and generosity in wishing to help/pointing me in the right direction. I am so grateful.

Here is what I know about my paternal grandparents:

I only met my paternal grandmother once when I was very small back in the late 1970s. She was called Annie Wilkins née Davis.

I never knew my paternal grandfather, I do not know if they were perhaps separated or if he had died. He was called Frank Sydney Wilkins.

In 1939 Frank was a Private in the Royal Army Service Corps and the address of "Granby Barracks, Devonport" is written under both the 'rank/profession' field and the 'residence of informant' field of my late father's birth certificate, which I have.

My Father's date of birth 12th June 1939, Plymouth. Ronald Eric Wilkins.

Frank and Annie had four children, I believe: Douglas, Ronald (my father), John and Lily (possibly Lilian).

My father was a very troubled artist and I had extremely little contact with him after the age of 8, but we did have contact by phone and by good old fashioned airmail letters (I live abroad) in the last few years before he died, as I found him via the Salvation Army Family Tracing Service.

Extra information that may or may not be true:

Annie had a Spanish accent, there was apparently some connection with Gibraltar.

John was married to Sheila, they possibly went to live in Australia.

True information:

Lily's married surname was Goss and she had a son named Stephen/Steven who sadly died in the early 1990s.

I do have a pile of handwritten letters that my father wrote and I recall some mention of family, so I will find them and see if there is any additional information at all to tell you.

Thank you in advance, I felt very daunted but you have given me hope!

Kindest regards

Aurore :-)

Message sent asking Dawn / Aurore to return to the boards with any info she has in the hopes we can help. Asked for dates, names, places, all known.

Beware, Aurore - it's the start of a slippery slope!

I first became hooked on genealogy when I started to investigate my mother's family.

Although I knew a lot about my father's family (mainly thanks to an uncle who had researched it in pre-internet days), I didn't know anything further back than my grandparents on my mother's side.
I only knew my grandparent's names, and that they had come from Oxfordshire.

When I found their marriage record - I caught the genealogy bug and never looked back!
Many years and dozens of ancestors later, the fascination is as strong as ever.

Do you have your fathers actual birth certificate?

If you want some help then post what you know with names etc

As you know the names of your paternal grandparents, you should look for their marriage record as your next step

Their ages and fathers’ names (if known) will be on the cert if you buy it.

Your post suggests that you didn’t actually know your father - forgive me if I’m misinterpreting.

Welcome to Genes and the Boards.

Very few of us use the records on Genes for research.
If your later father was born in England or Wales you can probably find the birth registration information on www.freebmd.org.uk. As the name suggests it is free.
You can then use the information it gives to get his birth certificate from GRO.gov.uk. This will give you the details of his parents.

If he was born in Scotland you will need to access Scotlands People.

If you want to give a few details there are plenty of people on here itching to help.