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Just to add (very belatedly) to my post on 10 Nov 2021 @12:29 -

I have only just noticed a reply from Emma on Ancestry, re my query to her about the different fathers' names given for Frank/lin Wilkins.

She says -
"Yes, I believe it to be a mistake made by a young man who probably didn't remember his father because he was very young when his father died.. . . . Alfred Edward WILKINS was the actual name of the father of Franklin but he died when Franklin was very young so a lot of Alfred's children gave various versions of his name."

Aurora said she was going to join Ancestry, so I hope she has been able to make contact with Emma for herself.

Hello, I have had a lot of work this week so I haven't been able to come here to read through everything, but you all have been so much in my thoughts, I told my husband that I call you all The Detectives! I am so grateful to you all. <3

I am just adding the names that GG provided to my tree, so much information, I am blown away by all this! It's wonderful. I was sad to discover that Carmen was in Plymouth, I knew nothing about her but I too was in Plymouth during some of her time there, it would have been so nice to have known her.
I did know my Aunt Lily a little (Violet Lily) but it is obvious that in reality I knew nothing of my father's family,.

Kay, you are a treasure, thank you for the cousins names, this is magnificent!

THANK YOU ALL, I remain astonished, and so very grateful, by your efforts. :-)

Names of the 6 coiusins sent.by PM.

I have sent you a newspaper report with the marriage of Edward in 1956. It says John, his brother was his best man and also has a photo of the happy couple.

Boston Guardian 11 April 1956

Don't get too hung up on exact matches for ages between one record and another. If Dad was giving the info for the 1914 census return ..............

Mum may have just been visiting someone else and will show elsewhere

The Feetham & Nixon (Danny F) tree gives

Alfred Davis b Gib. 1874, died 1940 London. Baptised King's Chapel, Gib. 1874

Married (1) no date Anna San Juan b 1872 Spain d c1902 Gibraltar
Children -
Carmen 1896 Gibraltar to -1990 Plymouth surname George
Isabel c1900 Gibraltar, died 1901 Gibraltar
Alfred c1902 - see below !!

Married (2) Maria Natividad Hernandez 1902 (she b 1887 Gib, d 1958 Gib). (There's a baptism record, middle name more like Nativitate)
children -
Alfred 1902 -1920 both Gib. (seems to be shown as child of both Anna and Maria !!
Annie 1904 - 1994 Your link
Rosie 1905 -1968 Married Walter Feetham so tree owners ancestor
Maria 1906 - said to have married Alfred Soiza, son Victor born c1938 Gib.
....................Alfred and Victor arrived London 1952 before going to Australia
John 1908 - says arrived New York 1943 (list shows only him). A wife named as Mary .....................Lily Reoch
William 1910 -1993 both Gibraltar. Married Maria Podesta (1913-1951 both Gibraltar)

----------------------------
Beware ancestry trees, unless well researched and records attached. always prove things yourself.

It's not unknown to get Granny born after grandkids, and one person to have never left these shores but miraculously was born, married and died on different continents. If it fits .........

Kay and ArgyllGran, what wonders you are! <3

AG, thank you so much for contacting Emma. I'm going to join Ancestry at the weekend, GG mentioned it too.

I'm going to find the photos that I have of the family in Australia, I'll send them over later by PM. There is one of Annie, my grandmother, with presumably cousins of mine whom I have never met, but they resemble us, they have to be relatives.

Will be on later to digest all that you have found. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH. :-)

I've sent a message to Emma6110 via Ancestry, to ask what she knows about the different father's names.

Kay's emigration for John Frank says he was born in Gibraltar. He is a telephone engineer going to Adelaide.

Sheila is a housewife/clerk born 10th Jan 1935.

This is their marriage

Marriages Sep 1956 (>99%)

FLITTON Sheila WILKINS Stepney 5d 1457
Wilkins John F Flitton Stepney 5d 1457

There is a son born 1957.

AG,

So it does I misread it,,aplogy as didnt intend to shed doubt.

Kay -
you say that "deceased" isn't mentioned re Frank's father at the 1931 marriage.

Are you seeing that on FMP? Is there an image of the original cert?
(The marriage record's not on Ancestry.)

The 2020 copy cert , of which Emma has an image on her tree, does say "deceased".

Frank in 1931 marriage lists his father as Soldier,,,,deceased not mentioned though.


.11 April 1956 - Boston Guardian - Boston, Lincolnshire, England

Doc True
First Double Ceremony at Chapel for 33 Years HECKINGTON SISTERS WERE 10 ". THE BRIDES The junior bridesmaid, Miss .
First Double Ceremony at Chapel for 33 Years HECKINGTON SISTERS WERE 10 ". THE BRIDES The junior bridesmaid, Miss .
Dawson was given away by her brother. Mr. Raymond Dawson, to Mr. Edward Wilkins, second son of Mr. and Nlrs F. Wilkins. of Plymouth. She wore a dress of white embroidered lace trimmed with pearls and had a matching headdress with a veil. Her bouquet was
06 April 1956 - Sleaford Gazette - Sleaford, Lincolnshire, England

Is this Edward.?

Edward Alfred ,Joyce (Dawson) &family also went to Australa via British Airways,the record may have refered to becoming a Aus citizen.?

Re your query about Alfred Edward Wilkins or Edward Albert -

Both are copied correctly from Emma's tree, and she's copied the info correctly from Frank's marriage cert - though that's not the original, but only a hand-written copy supplied in 2020.
There's an image of it on her tree.
.
Possibly the name Edward Albert on Frank's marriage cert was a mistake by whoever supplied the hand-written copy cert .

Worst case scenario - Emma has assumed Franklin was a member of the wrong family!
She has listed marriages of Franklin's siblings Marguerite Enid and Hope Beatrice - both giving father's name as Alfred or Alfred Edward.

Siblings Charles, Margaret/Margery and Ernest all died in infancy.

William George was later adopted by his mother's brother John Hogan and his wife Isobel. He married Isobel Adam in Scotland in 1922, as Hogan formerly Wilkins, giving his father as Alfred Edward Wilkins, overseer, Public Works Dept, India, deceased.
Frederick Edward married in 1918, but there's no image of his marriage cert, so I don't know what his father's name was stated to be.

These records are offered as proof of Alfred's name:


England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name Alfred Edward Wilkins
Gender Male
Baptism Date 8 Nov 1858
Baptism Place Alverstoke, Hampshire, England
Father George Wilkins
Mother Elizabeth
FHL Film Number 1596020
Reference ID 349-350


Alfred Wilkins
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Alfred Wilkins
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: 1859
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George Wilkins
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Wilkins
Gender: Male
Where Born: Gosport, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Alverstoke
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Alverstoke
Sub-registration District: Alverstoke
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 85
Piece: 645
Folio: 44
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
George Wilkins 45
Elizabeth Wilkins 45
John Wilkins 19
Jane Wilkins 17
Elizabeth Wilkins 14
Emma Wilkins 12
William Wilkins 10
Charles Wilkins 7
Alfred Wilkins 2


Alfred Wilkins
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Alfred Wilkins
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: 1859
Relation: Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Alverstoke, Hampshire, England
Civil parish: Alverstoke
Ecclesiastical parish: Alverstoke
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Registration district: Alverstoke
Sub-registration district: Alverstoke
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 76
Piece: 1149
Folio: 45
Page number: 17
Household Members Age Relationship
George Wilkins 55 Head
Elizabeth Wilkins 24 Daughter
Emma Wilkins 22 Daughter
Charles Wilkins 15 Son
Alfred Wilkins 12 Son



Charles Hogan Wilkins
in the India, Select Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
Name: Charles Hogan Wilkins
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 16 Aug 1885
Baptism Date: 30 Aug 1885
Baptism Age: 0
Baptism Place: Calicut, Madras, India
Father: Alfred Edward Wilkins
Mother: Mary Grace
Reference ID: v 66 p 169
FHL Film Number: 521873



She hasn't listed, and I can't find, any birth record for Franklin.
However, It seems unlikely that there should be "family information" about him if he wasn't one of the siblings.

Post on 8/11 23h09 from ArgyllGran says that the tree she found gives Annie's siblings as:

Siblings all born in Gibraltar: Rose 1905, Mary 1906; John 1909, William 1910

But this differs from the 1914 Census in Gibraltar posted by GreyGhost 9/11 18h52 which lists the children of the household as:
Carmen 15, Alfredo 11, Ana 9, Rosa 7, Maria 5, Juan 4 & Guillermo 2.

HOWEVER...

Although the years are out, some of the names are the same: Rose/Rosa, Marie/Mary, Juan/John, Guillermo/William. No mention of Carmen or Alfred.

Kay ! You found John, I knew that he existed! I would love to find the descendents in Australia. I have a b & w photograph of them but no names, nothing.

Edward Wilkins b. 1932 in Gibraltar is still a mystery, no-one ever mentioned him. I see that he came to the UK with Annie and John, but as for after, I did not know there was a brother named Edward.

GG
Lovely to know that both of Annie's parents were Gibraltarian. There is no mention though of Annie in the Census list of children, she was born in 1904 so would have been 9 or 10. There is an Ana of 9 yrs, so perhaps this is her.

Also, the Evacuation of Alfred and family from Gibraltar to the UK in 1940 listed Alfred as being 66 - giving an approximate birth year of 1874.. But the 1914 Census says he is 36, which is 4 years less than he should be.

I'm new so I don't know if discrepancies like this exist everywhere. There is also no mention of his wife Maria in the Census but it does list him as a Dockyard Constable which we have already seen come up elsewhere.

I will go to Ancestry on your recommendation and start a trial, thank you. I need to pointed in the right directions, otherwise I am stumbling over branches and falling down rabbit holes.

I will check out the Gibraltar families list...you've been there, I see!
I will go there one day when all this Covid Craziness is passed (two years more). I've already downloaded photos of the buildings there that Annie knew.

My grateful thanks as ever. :-)

There is another tree on Ancestry which takes the Gibraltar families back to Spain and the mid 1500's !! With various photos.
The Feetham and Nixon Family tree owner DannyF in Gibraltar!

Lovely to recognise some of the Gibraltar addresses in those records.

Might be worth you getting a 2 week free trial with Ancestry ?

1914 Gibraltar census from the ancestry tree - Original says South Barracks Hill not Rd.
Fact details
1914
South Barrack Rd, Gibraltar
1914 Census from The Gibralatar National Archives: Using the names DAVIES not DAVIS.
DAVIS Alfredo 36 Native, Dockyard Constable.
Carmen 15,
Alfredo 11,
Ana 9,
Rosa 7,
Maria 5,
Juan 4 &
Guillermo 2.

Ref. Your PM to me -
You should be able to order the 1922 Gater/Davis marriage certificate I posted yesterday @ 2321 from this site - https://www.gro.gov.uk

Details I posted are available on Find My Past but it's not possible to see the original)

The 1931 certificate should also be available -

Transcript of Annie's record

First name(s) Annie
Records year range 1931
Last name Gater
Archive reference ARM2
Sex Female
Page 12
Marriage year 1931
Line number 34
MarriageFinder™ Annie Gater married one of these people
Frank S Wilkins
Archive General Register Office
Marriage place Gibraltar
Record set British Armed Forces And Overseas Banns And Marriages
Place type Place
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Country Gibraltar
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
Type Armed Forces
Collections from Great Britain, UK None
Source Gro Index Army Marriages (1881 To 1955)

© Findmypast


You have to register with the GRO site, but free to use. Looks like you can't get a pdf form of the certificate as it's Overseas, so will cost the equivalent of £11

Amongst other things it should name both Fathers and their occupations

Not seeing the births - the Army birth records may not come that far forward as within 100 years. The eldest was born whilst Father Serving but don't think the younger one was, so would be registered as a Civilian.

Again, as per your PM - the 2 Gater children are Dolly Annie b 1923 (no death given) and Violet Lily b 1926, (died 2018 Plymouth) both born in Gibraltar.

WILKINS John Frank born 9 April 1931; Sheila +2 children,

Sailed from Southampton 31 st May 1968....... to Australia.

John was born just prior to parents marriage..


ViewUK and Ireland, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Add or update information
Report a problem
Name: John Gater
Arrival Age: 1
Birth Date: abt 1931
Port of Departure: Brisbane, Australia
Arrival Date: 12 Aug 1932
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ports of Voyage: Sydney; Melbourne; Adelaide; Fremantle; Colombo; Bombay; Port Said; Marseilles; Gibraltar; Plymouth, Devon, England
Ship Name: Mooltan
Shipping Line: Peninsula and Orient Steam Navigation Company Ltd
Official Number: 145435
Search Ship Database: Search for the Mooltan in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database.

John traveled as Gater same ship as Annie and Edward and intended address ---22 ,Garden Street Morice Town Devonport,his surname got changed at later stage.

Hello ArgyllGran

You have discovered so much! I am indebted to you. Thank you.

There was something, but perhaps I have made a massive mistake... ;-)

Your post (today 8:53am) from the tree of Emma at Ancestry says:
(upon his marriage to Annie in 1931):

Frank Sydney WILKINS age 32 bachelor Private R.A.S.C of Town Range Barracks, Gibraltar
F: Edward Albert WILKINS (deceased) soldier

But in the post of 8/11 at 23.09 the father of Franklin Sydney Wilkins is listed as Alfred Edward Wilkins.

I apologise in advance if it is me that has muddled it all up.

Kind regards

Re John - I'm wondering about this person.

He's on a private tree on Ancestry,so can't see any details of his family.

He wasn't born in England/Wales/Scotland, and didn't die there either..


Name John Franklin Wilkins
Birth 1932
Death 18 April 2014

If , by chance, that's him, he must be aka Edward

The tree "owner" is "Metorkelson" of Delaware, USA. His/her surname is Torkelson.


EDIT:
But there's a record of a death and burial in Delaware of a John F Wilkins in 2014 - though no year of birth given on findagrave - so the person in the tree may be that man.
Parents John Henry Wilkins and Frances Bromley West - in which case clearly not your John/Edward.