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Yes A G, think you are right I will have to let go now, Got to the brick wall now. Thankyou for your help and to your other GR friends . Certainly a name that’s been difficult, don’t even know if it was the correct spelling of the name originally.

Henry Rollins in 1841 was an agricultural labourer, so presumably employed by the hotel owners.

There is no other record of him, so it's impossible to know his parentage.

I don't see the baptism record of Isaac.

I fear you are grasping at weak straws, John.
At some point we all have to accept that we can't go any further back with our trees, as the records simply aren't there.


EDIT:

There's a 1793 St Bees baptism for a James Rollin, with father named Isaac.
But no baptism of an Isaac, as far as I can see, and absolutely no reason to think that that family is in any way connected to your James born in Barton, almost 50 miles away.

Certainly the spelling of the surname Rollins, is throwing me, but for sure it is Rollins in 1815 and in 1896

I have got as far as John and Ellen Rollins nee Smith, the presumed the parents of John Rollins b 1827 are James Rollins and Mary Green married Barton Westmorland. I looked in Family Search and found Thomas Rollins b 1817 in Haversham Westmorland. Also found on FS, an Isaac Rollins bap 1793 St Bees Cumberland. and just found an Henry Rollins on the census records 1841 living at The Shaws Hotel Township of Waterhead , Lanercost, Cumberland, occ Ag Lab age 50 yrs ( b 1791) so wondering if James , Isaac and Henry could be brothers .

Siblings of John??

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
Name: James Rollins
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 9 Jan 1825
Christening Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father James Rollins
Mother Mary Rollins


Liverpool, England, Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name
Mary Elizabeth Rollins
Baptism Date: 31 Jul 1833
Baptism Place
Liverpool, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears
Liverpool, St Peter
Father: James Rollins
Mother: Mary Rollins




The Thomas you mentioned:

Thoms. Rollins
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Thoms. Rollins
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 9 Mar 1817
Baptism Place: Heversham,Westmorland,England
Father: James Rollins
FHL Film Number: 0097370-372, 0994026 IT 3

Heversham is about 17 miles from Spark Bridge, so the baptism may well relate to the Thomas in the Censuses, with daughter Charlotte and other children.

But whether or not his parents are the same James and Mary who married in 1815, it's impossible to tell.
Barton is about 40 miles from Heversham - which proves nothing one way or another.

ArgyllGran. Re - your question. My sister in law Margaret Rhoda A Lewis nee Stopford died 2005 Chippenham Wiltshire of the big C. My brother Michael L Lewis died recently in June.in Chippenham. I was asked at the funeral by the niece of Margaret if I could find all I could about her family because she knows nothing . I have seen the family on Ancestry re Master Gazzard and can verify that I am on the right track because have seen a copy of the marriage of George Brown and Hesther( also spelt Esther) Rhoda Rollins and 2 of his relations an Alfred Edward Gazzard and a Mary Gazzard were both witnesses at the marriage.

Baptism entry While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
County Somerset
Place (Links to more information) Shepton Mallet
Church name (Links to more information) St Peter and Paul
Register type (Links to more information) Parish Register
Register entry number 2345
Birth date 18 Mar *
Baptism date 16 Apr 1876
Person forename Hester Rhoda Smith
Person sex ?
Father forename John
Mother forename Ellen
Father surname RAWLINGS
Person abode Cowl Street
Father occupation Tailor
Transcribed by Yvonne Scrivener
File line number 37343

Thanks, John.

So, working back step by step, and not looking at any trees for the moment -

Her birth:

Births Mar 1942 (>99%)
Stopford Margaret R A Brown Cirencester 6a 1082

Her parents' marriage:

Marriages Dec 1938 (>99%)
Brown Mary J Stopford Stroud 6a 1126
Stopford Granville W Brown Stroud 6a 1126


Her mother's birth:

Births Mar 1916 (>99%)
Brown Mary J Rollins Stroud 6a 553


Grandparent's marriage:

Marriages Dec 1896 (>99%)
Brown George Barton R. 6a 151
Rollins Esther Rhoda S Barton R 6a 151

OK, so that definitely links you to John and Ellen Rollins, and therefore to James and Mary.

So are you now trying to find James's parents and siblings, if any?
I think we've become confused as to exactly what it is you're looking for.

You mentioned a possible son Thomas, born 1817.

Grandmothers name was Hesther,Rhoda Smith Rollins b 1876 Shelton Mallet daughter of John Rollins b 1827 Toxteth Liverpool. grandfather was George Francis Brown and they lived in Stonehouse Gloucestershire. My late sister in law was Margaret Rhoda A Stopford. , mother Mary Joyce Brown.

John -
if you would like us to help verify what you've found, you need to give us some clear information to work from.

What was your late sister-in-law's full name - before she married?
When and where did she die?
What was her grandmother's name?


You say you "found someone on Ancestry, who is connected to the Rollins"
Do you mean someone who has their tree on Ancestry?

Many trees on Ancestry (and elsewhere) are full of mistakes, and you need to check everything out yourself (with our help if you like), with documentary evidence.

John Rollins is on 28 trees on Ancestry.
Not all the tree "owners" will have checked the information. Many will just have copied from another tree.
The "Master Gazzard FamilyTree" on Ancestry seems well-researched re the Rollins family - lots of documentary proof.
However, without knowing your sister-in-law's name, I can't tell if there's any link to your family or not.

You aren’t saying where you got to when ‘working back’. So……..I’ll leave you to your musings…………..

I have found an Isaac Rollins baptised 10th Feb 1793 St Bees Cumberland, so wondering if he could be the brother of James Rollins born 1792 Barton Westmorland
which looking at the maps around the Lake District area, both counties renamed Cumbria.

Thankyou to all of you for your findings which I have more or less found. Kucinta, you asked how I started looking for the Rollins, I started with my sister in law who was born in Gloucestershire and worked back, but then found someone on Ancestry, who is connected to the Rollins albeit from a different child of John Rollins and Ellen Smith who had found information on John Rollins. Spotted a name of Hester, Rhoda Smith Rollins, his last daughter. Hester and Rhoda being the 2nd Christian names of my sister in law and her sister, so felt sure got the right family. It is just that I seem to be unable to find any more Rollins that originated in Westmorland after James Rollins. Certainly doesn’t help with the different spelling of the surname. I think I found a son Thomas Rollins who was baptised in Haversham Westmorland 9th Mar 1817 states father as James Rollins, James and Mary Green married 1815, can see though that Safc found a Thomas Rollins born in Lancashire Spark Bridge, so I presume this could the same Thomas Rollins. That would mean a difference of 7 to 8 yrs between him and James Rollins b 1825 Liverpool, and sibling John b 1827 Toxteth. Wondering if any more children born between 1817 and 1824 in Westmorland or even Liverpool.

Who was the ‘grandmother’ to whom you referred, John?
Have you tried working back from her systematically?
That’s the way to proceed if you want an accurate tree

Give us the woman’s details if you would like to have some help

Have you investigated the holdings at the Cumbria Archives? They have some parish records going back to the mid 1600’s.

John did say part way through that he was trying to link James and Mary with the 1930s Rollins of Gloucestershire, so those children of John c1827's, may form part of the link, if John is not sure if James and Mary are even connected...

Kucinta posted baptisms of two of John & Ellen Rollins's children - Ellen Louisa 1870 and John 1867 (baptised 1868).


Births of their children listed in censuses:


ROLLINS, MARY ELIZABETH SMITH
GRO Reference: 1857 M Quarter in SHEPTON MALLET Volume 05C Page 586

ROLLINS, ANN SMITH
GRO Reference: 1859 S Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 477

ROLLINS, ROBERT JAMES SMITH
GRO Reference: 1861 D Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 500


ROLLINS, JANE SMITH
GRO Reference: 1864 D Quarter in BRISTOL Volume 06A Page 5

ROLLINS, JOHN SMITH
GRO Reference: 1867 S Quarter in BRISTOL Volume 06A Page 8

ROLLINS, ELLEN LOUISA SMITH
GRO Reference: 1870 J Quarter in SHEPTON MALLET Volume 05C Page 591

ROLLINS, ANNIE SMITH
GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in SHEPTON MALLET Volume 05C Page 555


Probable death of Ann born 1959:

ROLLINS, ANN 1
GRO Reference: 1861 J Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 371

Ann Rollins
in the Lancashire, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1986
Name: Ann Rollins
Birth Year: abt 1860
Death Age: 1 [ 1 year & 9 months on image ]
Burial Date: 30 Apr 1861
Burial Parish: Eccleston, St Thomas, Lancashire, England
Register Type: Parish Register
Reference Number: Pr 3394/1/13


However, none of that is any help with the ancestry of James Rollins, which is what you asked about!

John, you say you are trying to link James and Mary to a family of Rollins living in Gloucestershire in the 1930s, how did you trace back from the 1930s Rollins you know for certain, to James and Mary?

What is the line back from the 1930s? does it lead back to any of the children of John Rollins born 1827, Liverpool , that are listed in the censuses ArgyllGran posted, for instance?

We need definite facts and names so far as you have them, otherwise it's all just guesswork.

ArgyllGran has listed John and Ellen's children in the various censuses.

I could only find a couple of their baptisms.

John jr

First name(s) John
Last name Rollins
Birth year 1867
Birth date 14 Aug 1867
Baptism year 1868
Baptism date 25 Sep 1868
Residence Cowl Street
Denomination Anglican
Place Shepton Mallet
County Somerset
Country England
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Rollins
Mother's first name(s) Ellen
Father's occupation Tailor
Event type Baptisms
Archive Somerset Archives


First name(s) Ellen Louisa
Last name Rollins
Birth year 1870
Birth date 02 Jun 1870
Baptism year 1870
Baptism date 01 Jul 1870
Residence Cowl Street
Denomination Anglican
Place Shepton Mallet
County Somerset
Country England
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Rollins
Mother's first name(s) Ellen
Father's occupation Tailor
Event type Baptisms
Archive Somerset Archives
Document type Parish records
Page 205
Archive reference D/P/SHE 2/1/18
Year range 1855-1876
Record set Somerset Baptism Index
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from England, Great Britain

Marriage entry While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
County Somerset
Place (Links to more information) Evercreech
Church name (Links to more information) St Peter
Register type (Links to more information) Parish Register
Register entry number 143
Marriage date 31 Jan 1856
Groom forename John
Groom surname ROLLINS
Groom age 27
Groom condition bachelor
Groom occupation [TS]ailor
Groom abode Evercreech
Bride forename Ellen
Bride surname SMITH
Bride age 21
Bride condition spinster
Bride abode Evercreech
Groom father forename James
Groom father surname ROLLINS
Groom father occupation Gardener
Bride father forename Robert
Bride father surname SMITH
Bride father occupation Manager of Silk Factory
Witness1 Virtue? SMITH
Witness2 James KEOUGH
Notes Additional witness: Daniel WA*[D_]
Transcribed by Yvonne Scrivener
Credit Yvonne Scrivener who paid for these fiche
File line number 1582