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Ellen
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30 Jul 2021 12:41 |
Thank you everyone for your messages ,you are always willing to help even when I stuff it up :-)
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ArgyllGran
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30 Jul 2021 10:04 |
Oh, OK - the transcription on Findagrave must be wrong. Unfortunately there's no photo of the gravestone:
William Summers in the Australia and New Zealand, Find a Grave Index, 1800s-Current Name: William Summers Death Date: 13 Mar 1871 Cemetery: East Perth Cemeteries Burial or Cremation Place: Perth, City of Perth, Western Australia, Australia
EDIT:
Now I see that the cemetery has inscription records on its website:
https://www.eastperthcemeteries.com.au/explore/burial-search/burialsite/134536.html
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Ellen
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30 Jul 2021 02:09 |
To The Memory Of William Summers Who Died April 13th 1871 Aged 55 Years Also Christiana Wife Of The Above Who Died 5th June 1878 Aged 59 Years Also Of John Summers Son Of The Above Who Died 17th August 1885 Aged 49 Years Highly Respected And Deeply Regretted By All Who Knew Him Also In Memory Of Sarah Daughter Of William And Christiana Summers Who Died March 14th 1889 Aged 50 Years God Is Love
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alviegal
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28 Jul 2021 20:13 |
Six Years Penal Servitude. —John Summers, having a "jemmy" with intent to break into the shop of Henry Terry.
25 October 1856 - Leeds Intelligencer - Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Between one and two o'clock yesterday (Friday) morning Sergeant Wainwright suddenly pounced upon a well-known character named John Summers, whom he detected loitering about the premises of Mr. Terry, silversmith, Briggate. A struggle ensued, but Summers was eventually overpowered. A formidable locking "jemmy" was found concealed under his coat. Two other suspicious looking men were observed standing at the end of Duncan Street but no sooner had the sergeant tackled his man than both made off with all possible speed. The borough magistrates have committed Summers to trial at the sessions.
09 August 1856 - Leeds Times - Leeds, Yorkshire, England
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ArgyllGran
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28 Jul 2021 10:20 |
We've posted all that for you. But as already pointed out , William died in March 1871, not April.
William Swanner in the 1841 England Census Name: William Swanner [William Summers] Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816 Gender: Male Where born: Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Scarborough Hundred: Scarborough Borough County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street Address: Occupation: View image Registration District: Scarborough Sub-registration District: Scarborough Neighbors: Piece: 1266 Book: 11 Folio: 18 Page Number: 11 Household Members: Name Age William Swanner 25 Christiana Swanner 20 John Swanner 4 Sarah Swanner 2
William Simmers in the 1851 England Census Name: William Simmers [William Summers] Age: 33 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Christiana Simmers Gender: Male Where born: Wold Newton, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Falsgrave County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street Address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration District: Scarborough Sub-registration District: Filey ED, institution, or vessel: 2a Neighbors: Household Schedule Number: 64 Piece: 2368 Folio: 521 Page Number: 16 Household Members: Name Age William Simmers 33 Christiana Simmers 32 John Simmers 14 Sarah Simmers 12 Francis Bell 20 Seth Riby 19
William Summers in the 1861 England Census Name: William Summers Age: 44 Estimated Birth Year: 1817 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Christiana Summers Gender: Male Where born: Wola Preston, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Falsgrave County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street Address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration District: Scarborough Sub-registration District: Scarborough ED, institution, or vessel: 20 Neighbors: Household Schedule Number: 82 Piece: 3620 Folio: 9 Page Number: 12 Household Members: Name Age William Summers 44 Christiana Summers 42 Sarah Summers 22
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Ellen
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28 Jul 2021 07:11 |
Hello everyone, REALLY SORRY to tell you I was given the wrong name the Convict was John Summers born abt 1837 died 16/8/1885 at Perth
His parents were William Summers born abt 1816 died 13/4/1871 Perth West Australia & Christiana Newton born abt 1819 died 5/6/1878 at Perth.
John came out on the Lord Raglan arriving Fremantle 1st June 1858 He was charged with being found in the night with implements of Housebreaking Leeds Court 21 October 1856 received 6 years transportation
His parents William & Christiana Summers came out on the "Fitzroy" arriving October 1866
I am truly sorry for all of the time you put in to searching :-(
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ArgyllGran
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26 Jul 2021 14:32 |
The son John's arrival in Australia:
John Summers in the Web: Australia, Convict Records Index, 1787-1867 Name: John Summers Conviction Place: Yorkshire, Leeds General Quarter Sessions Departure Date: 3 Mar 1858 Arrival Date: 1 Jun 1858 Arrival Place: Western Australia Arrival Ship: Lord Raglan
John Summers in the UK Surgeon Superintendents' Journals of Convict Ships, 1858-1867 Name: John Summers Birth Year: abt 1835 Event Age: 23 Event Year: 1858 Ship Name: Lord Raglan
He had gone to both Sunday and day schools, and could read and write.
Ellen - we need you to come back to your thread and let us know if this is the family you're interested in.
No point in finding records for the wrong family!
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Maddie
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26 Jul 2021 13:42 |
Christiana Newton Summers Birth 1819 Scarborough, Scarborough Borough, North Yorkshire, England Death 5 Jun 1878 (aged 58–59) Perth, City of Perth, Western Australia, Australia Burial East Perth Cemeteries Perth, City of Perth, Western Australia, Australia Plot Wesleyan Grave # 73 Memorial ID 190446903 · View Source
Heart Disease; Arrived 16/10/1866 per the "Fitzroy"; Married William Summers 22/07/1836, Scarborough, Yorkshire, England; Children: John - coachbuilder 1837, Flixton, Yorkshire; Sarah 1839, Flixton, Yorkshire, England. 14/061878 The West Australian Times pg 2. Family Members
Sarah Summers Birth 1849 Scarborough, Scarborough Borough, North Yorkshire, England Death 14 Mar 1889 (aged 39–40) Perth, City of Perth, Western Australia, Australia Burial East Perth Cemeteries Perth, City of Perth, Western Australia, Australia Plot Wesleyan Grave # 73 Memorial ID 190446905 · View Source
Dementia, Colonial Perth Hospital; Daughter of Christiana Newton and William Summers; Arrived 16/10/1866 per the "Fitzroy". Funeral Notice 15/03/189 The West Australian pg 2; Death Notice 13/04/1889 The Daily News pg 3. Spouse
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ArgyllGran
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25 Jul 2021 21:13 |
Ellen -
to repeat ErikaH's question - how did you work back to William Summers?
Is the death on 13 March 1871 the one you meant? If so, why did you think he was a convict arriving on the "Minden"?
This may be the marriage of the one who died in 1871, though it doesn't quite match the info added to the Findagrave record.:
William Summers in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 Name: William Summers Gender: Male Age: 20 Birth Date: 1816 Marriage Date: 22 Jul 1836 Marriage Place: York, England Spouse: Christiana Newton FHL Film Number: 1470319 Reference ID: item 1
Same marriage ??
William Summers in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 Name: William Summers Gender: Male Marriage Date: 23 Jul 1836 Marriage Place: Scarborough, York, England Spouse: Christiana Mewton FHL Film Number: 919207 Reference ID: p 283
William Summers in the 1861 England Census Name: William Summers Age: 44 Estimated Birth Year: 1817 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Christiana Summers Gender: Male Where born: Wola Preston, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Falsgrave County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street Address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration District: Scarborough Sub-registration District: Scarborough ED, institution, or vessel: 20 Neighbors: Household Schedule Number: 82 Piece: 3620 Folio: 9 Page Number: 12 Household Members: Name Age William Summers 44 - wheelwright and joiner Christiana Summers 42 Sarah Summers 22
Daughter's birth:
SUMMERS, SARAH mmn NEWTON GRO Reference: 1838 D Quarter in SCARBROUGH Volume 24 Page 418
William Simmers in the 1851 England Census Name: William Simmers [William Summers] Age: 33 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Christiana Simmers Gender: Male Where born: Wold Newton, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Falsgrave County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street Address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration District: Scarborough Sub-registration District: Filey ED, institution, or vessel: 2a Neighbors: Household Schedule Number: 64 Piece: 2368 Folio: 521 Page Number: 16 Household Members: Name Age William Simmers 33 - joiner employing 3 apprentices Christiana Simmers 32 John Simmers 14 Sarah Simmers 12 Francis Bell 20 - apprentice Seth Riby 19 - apprentice
Findagrave entry for the son John:
John Summers Birth 1837 Scarborough, Scarborough Borough, North Yorkshire, England Death 16 Aug 1885 (aged 47–48) Perth, City of Perth, Western Australia, Australia Burial East Perth Cemeteries Perth, City of Perth, Western Australia, Australia Plot Wesleyan Grave # 73 Memorial ID 190446904 · View Source
Son of Christiana Newton and William Summers; Arrived 01/06/1858 per the "Lord Raglan"; Married Elizabeth Howlett 1861, Perth, WA; Child: Elizabeth 1867. Convict # 4942; Conviction Leeds 1856; Possession of stolen goods; 6 years; Ticket of Leave 21/12/1860; Expired 20/01/1863; Carriage Builder Perth; 1868 Member of UIOOF Lodge; 1874 Perth Board of Education. Funeral Notice 18/08/1885 The Daily News pg 3; News and Notes 19/08/1885 The West Australian pg 3.
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ArgyllGran
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25 Jul 2021 20:25 |
William Summers in the England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892 Name: William Summers Age: 15 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832 Date of Trial: 23 Nov 1847 Trial Year: 1847 Location of Trial: Essex, England Sentence: Imprisonment [ 7 days, and whipped ]
Crime: larceny.
I don't see him on the 1841 census, at least not in Essex. There are lots of William Summers (or other similar spelling) of approx the right age in other places.
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alviegal
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25 Jul 2021 20:11 |
?? Pretty harsh sentence for the poor lad.
" BEFORE W. COTTON, ESQ. William Summers, 15, labourer, was convicted of stealing a pair of shoes from John Robinson, at Warley, and a prior conviction being proved, he was sentenced to 7 years transportation."
18 February 1848 - Chelmsford Chronicle - Chelmsford, Essex, England
and a possible previous one
"William Summers, 15, labourer, to stealing a pair of trousers and coat from Thomas Jackson of Upminster— seven days solitude and whipped."
26 November 1847 - Essex Standard - Colchester, Essex, England
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alviegal
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25 Jul 2021 20:04 |
Looks like the same boy you found ArgyllGran
William Last name Summers Birth year - Departure year 1851 Ship name Minden Where convicted Chelmsford, Essex >>When convicted 1848 (15 Feb) Sentence 7 Years Country Australia Record type Records Folio 83 Page 160 Record set Convict Transportation Registers 1787-1870
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ErikaH
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25 Jul 2021 13:25 |
How did you work back to this man? What ‘further info’ are you actually looking for?
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ArgyllGran
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25 Jul 2021 13:04 |
Ah, well, not the same one who was transported in 1851.
Here's a medical record for the 1851 man - although the date 1854 doesn't quite fit the rest of the info -
William Summers in the Western Australia, Australia, Convict Records, 1846-1930 Name: William Summers Birth Year: abt 1832 Age: 22 Date: 1 Dec 1854 Record Type: Convict Establishment, Medical Reference Number: ACC 1156/M13
Register No 896 (as in the transportation record ) Occupation: brickmaker. Employment in prison: quarry.
There's a note saying "Minden 14 months 2 days". Not quite sure what that means - doesn't fit with arrival 1851.
On 1st Dec, there's an "Ordinary ophthalmic [something] to right eye", which was "going on well" on 2 & 3 Dec. He was readmitted for the same thing on 6th Dec, and discharged on 17 Dec.
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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25 Jul 2021 12:59 |
Name: William Summers Age: 17 Birth Year: 1831 Arrival year: 1848 Arrival State: Western Australia Trial Place: Chelmsford Status: U Ship: Minden Occupation: Brickmaker
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ArgyllGran
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25 Jul 2021 12:49 |
I don't know how long after conviction it would be until transportation. Don't know if this is relevant or not:
William Summers in the England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892 Name: William Summers Age: 15 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833 Date of Trial: 15 Feb 1848 Trial Year: 1848 Location of Trial: Essex, England Sentence: Transportation
Crime: "Larceny before convicted of felony"
There are numerous convictions of people named William Summers in Essex, of minor offences including larceny, but I don't know if they're all the same person, as most don't give ages.
This one may be the same boy:
William Summers in the England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892 Name: William Summers Age: 14 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834 Date of Trial: 4 Jan 1848 Trial Year: 1848 Location of Trial: Essex, England Sentence: Acquittal [ fraud ]
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ArgyllGran
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25 Jul 2021 12:15 |
I don't see a record of the death you mention.
There's this one on 13 March 1871 (not April as in the one you mention) - but he's not the man who arrived on the "Minden":
William Summers in the Australia and New Zealand, Find a Grave Index, 1800s-Current Name: William Summers Death Date: 13 Mar 1871 Cemetery: East Perth Cemeteries Burial or Cremation Place: Perth, City of Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Fall from a horse; Arrived 16/10/1866 per the "Fitzroy; Married Christian Newton 27/07/1836 Scarborough, Yorkshire, England. Local and General 14/04/1871 The Perth Gazette and West Australian Times pg 3.
Presumably the same death:
William Summers in the Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985 Name: William Summers Birth Year: abt 1816 Age: 55 Registration Year: 1871 Registration Place: Western Australia Registration Number: 4923
There's nothing on the conviction/transportation records to give any clue to your William's YOB. "Median life span 55 years" doesn't apply specifically to William Summers - it just means that's the average lifespan of the convicts whose records are on that website - Shirley posted a link.
It doesn't mean he was born in 1816.
ADDED:
In fact, it looks as if he was born c1831:
William Summers in the Western Australia, Australia, Convict Records, 1846-1930 Name: William Summers Birth Year: abt 1831 Age: 20 Date: 14 Oct 1851 Record Type: Convict Department Reel Number: FCN42 Reference Number: ACC 128/40-43
The image, which is of a list of convicts arriving on the "Minden", says
William Summers, age 20, height 5' 8.5", brown hair, blue eyes, oval face, fair complexion, healthy appearance, no distinguishing marks, brickmaker, single, no children.
His Register No was 896.
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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25 Jul 2021 08:17 |
William Summers Conviction Place: Essex. Chelmsford Quarter Sessions Departure Date: 16 Jul 1851 Arrival Date: 14 Oct 1851 Arrival Place: Western Australia Arrival Ship: Minden URL: https://convictrecords.com.au/convicts/summers/william/447
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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25 Jul 2021 08:15 |
All I can find
William Summers
William Summers, one of 302 convicts transported on the Minden, 16 July 1851
Name, Aliases & Gender
Name: William Summers Aliases: none Gender: - Birth, Occupation & Death
Date of Birth: - Occupation: - Date of Death: - Age: - Life Span Life span Median life span was 55 years* * Median life span based on contributions
Conviction & Transportation
Sentence Severity Sentence Severity Sentenced to 7 years Crime: - Convicted at: Essex. Chelmsford Quarter Sessions Sentence term: 7 years Ship: Minden Departure date: 16th July, 1851 Arrival date: 14th October, 1851 Place of arrival Western Australia Passenger manifest Travelled with 301 other convicts
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Ellen
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25 Jul 2021 07:29 |
I am looking for any further information for a William Summers born abt 1816 died 13/4/1871 at Perth Western Australia, on his conviction that bought him to Perth Western Australia. He was tried at the Essex Chelsmford Qtr Sessions He left England on the "Minden" 16th July 1851 arriving in Fremantle 14th October 1851 Thank You Ellen
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