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Hi. Just update on my findings

Douglas mcdonald wyatt born 1931-1995 Cuckfield mum Florence Emma Blake
Father Douglas John Wyatt

Douglas John Wyatt had a year later in 1932 a son also called Douglas John Wyatt with a Laura E Standing.

I'm.in touch now with a daughter of Douglas John Wyatt 1932 and confirmed.

Sadly the wyatt family gene all suffer with Muscular Dystrophy I found that not only my Grandad Douglas McDonald Wyatt had Muscular dystrophy as well as my mum and her 3 sisters, but also Douglas John wyatt 1932 was also affected with the same gene and passed to his family :(

Still no luck on finding Florence Emma Blake, I'm stuck on this one

Caris

Those sisters are in south east London and your family were in Sussex so very unlikely to be connected


I originate from that area of south east London so know it well !

Here they are, with grandparents, in 1911:

Florence Blake
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Florence Blake
Age in 1911: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1908
Relation to Head: Grandchild
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Shrewsbury
Civil Parish: Plumstead
Country: England
Street Address: 49 Albatross Street, Plumstead Common, Plumstead
Registration District Number: 30
Sub-registration District: Plumstead West
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Piece: 2896
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Blake 52
Mary Jane Blake 50
Reckber Blake 20 - daughter, single
Emma Blake 13 - daughter, single
George Blake 8 - son
Thillis Blake 3 [ Phyllis ] - grand-daughter
Florence Blake 3 - grand-daughter


Florence Henrietta Blake
in the Bexley, Kent, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1985
Name: Florence Henrietta Blake
Age: 19
Birth Year: abt 1908
Burial Date: 15 Feb 1927
Burial Place: East Wickham, Kent, England
Chapelry: St Michael
Parish as it Appears: East Wickham


Anyway, she's not Florence Emma Blake, so we can forget about her!

The record you mention, for our reference:

Phyllis Blake
in the London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930
Name: Phyllis Blake
Discharge Age: 2
Record Type: Discharge
Birth Date: abt 1908
Discharge Date: 22 Feb 1910
Discharge Place: Greenwich, Woolwich, London, England

Phyllis and Florence were both admitted from East Plumstead parish
They were discharged to Goldie Leigh , which was an orphanage at that time.

Info about Goldie Leigh here:
https://ezitis.myzen.co.uk/goldieleigh.html

Looks like these two births - twins:

BLAKE, FLORENCE HENRIETTA mmn PERKINS
GRO Reference: 1908 J Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 627

BLAKE, PHYLLIS REBECCA mmn PERKINS
GRO Reference: 1908 J Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 627

Hi. Doing more searching, I come across a Florence blake and Phyllis blake in the workhouse born both in 1908 assuming there twins as same birth date and discharged in 1910.

Parents of Florence emma blake

Ernest Blake 1873-1964
Emma Blake 1873-1957

Just in case Lily does turn out to be Douglas John's mother -


her birth parents' marriage:

Marriages Jun 1878 (>99%)
HOYLE Fanny Louisa Stoke D. 5b 602
WYATT Robert Stoke D. 5b 602


Fanny Wyatt
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Fanny Wyatt
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: Robt. Wyatt
Gender: Female
Where born: Welcombe, Cornwall, England
Civil Parish: Preston
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Street Address: 28 Gerard St
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration District: Steyning
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors:
Piece: 1100
Folio: 16
Page Number: 28
Household Members:
Name Age
Robt. Wyatt 26 - Plymouth
Fanny Wyatt 26
Jessie Wyatt 2


Fanny died in 1885 - almost certainly at Lily's birth;

Deaths Dec 1885 (>99%)
Wyatt Fanny Louise 29 Brighton 2b 153


In 1891 her widowed husband and daughter are with his parents in Brighton:

Robert Wyatt
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Robert Wyatt
Gender: Male
Age: 34
Relationship: Son
Birth Year: 1857
Father: George Wyatt
Mother: Ann E Wyatt
Child: Jessie E A Wyatt
George R Wyatt
Birth Place: Plymouth, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Brighton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Martin
Residence Place: Brighton, Sussex, England
Registration District: Brighton
Sub registration district: St Peter
ED, Institution or Vessel: 34
Neighbors:
Piece: 809
Folio: 97
Household Members:
Name Age
George Wyatt 61
Ann E Wyatt 61
Robert Wyatt 34
Jessie E A Wyatt 12
George R Wyatt 7


Haven't figured out yet what relation Robert Wyatt is to Lily's adoptive father William Wyatt.
They don't seem to be brothers.

However, I won't go any further until you know definitely who Douglas John's mother was.

Ok great thank you il have a look thru the info now . Appreciate your help

If (and please note - this is ONLY a suggestion - I don't know anything definite)
Douglas John's unmarried mother later married in Steyning, this MIGHT be her marriage:

Lily Jane Wyatt
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Lily Jane Wyatt
Registration Year: 1910
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Steyning
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 2b
Page: 519
Records on Page:
Name
Alfred Ernest Stoff?ll [ Stoffell on image ]
Lily Jane Wyatt



Lily J Stoffell
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Lily J Stoffell
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 11 Oct 1886
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 6
Residence Place: Maidstone, Kent, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Line Number: 26
Schedule Number: 65
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: DIBH
Borough: Maidstone
Registration district: 51-3
Inferred Spouse:
Alfred E Stoffell
Household Members Age
Alfred E Stoffell 50
Lily J Stoffell 53


Her birth:

WYATT, LILY JANE mmn HOYLE
GRO Reference: 1885 D Quarter in BRIGHTON Volume 02B Page 249



Lily I Wyatt
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Lily I Wyatt
Gender: Female
Age: 5
Relationship: Adopted Daughter <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth Year: 1886
Birth Place: Brighton, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Preston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
Residence Place: Preston, Sussex, England
Registration District: Steyning
Sub registration district: Shoreham
ED, Institution or Vessel: 29
Neighbors:
Piece: 821
Folio: 122
Household Members:
Name Age
William Wyatt 49 - Plymton, Devon
Anna Wyatt 38
William G R Wyatt 18 - son
Anna E Wyatt 12 - daughter
Lily I Wyatt 5
Ernest Cloce 22 - boarder
Emma West 63 - lodger


Lily Jane Wyatt
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Lily Jane Wyatt
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Mother: Anna Wyatt
Birth Place: Brighton, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Preston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration District: Steyning
Sub-registration District: Shoreham
ED, institution, or vessel: 42
Neighbors:
Piece: 940
Folio: 158
Page Number: 22
Household Schedule Number: 173
Household Members:
Name Age
Anna Wyatt 47
Anna E Wyatt 22
Lily Jane Wyatt 15


Lily Wyatt
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Lily Wyatt
Age in 1911: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Brighton, Sussex
Civil Parish: Maidstone
Country: England
Street Address: 8 Church Street, Maidstone, Kent
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Tailors
Registration District Number: 51
Sub-registration District: Maidstone
ED, institution, or vessel: 08
Piece: 4135
Household Members:
Name Age
Job Mason 60
Annie Mason 57
Laurie Lewis 44
Philip Lewis 7
Arthur L Carel 21
Ernest Stoffell 21
Lily Wyatt 25
Elizabeth Reader 72


BUT -
you would have to buy Douglas John's birth to see if Lily was his mother or not.


Lily's adoptive mother died in 1906, and her adoptive sister Anna Elizabeth married, also in 1906, both in Steyning RD:

Deaths Dec 1906 (>99%)
Wyatt Anna 53 Steyning 2b 156


Marriages Jun 1906 (>99%)
Muller John Richard Steyning 2b 633
Wyatt Anna Elizabeth Steyning 2b 63

Birth of a daughter:

MULLER, LILY ANNA mmn WYATT
GRO Reference: 1907 J Quarter in STEYNING Volume 02B Page 243


I'd hoped Douglas John might have been with them in 1911, but he's not:

Lily Anna Miller
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Lily Anna Miller
Age in 1911: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1908
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Brighton, Sussex
Civil Parish: Brighton
Country: England
Street Address: 10 Round Hill Road Brighton Sussex
Registration District Number: 79
Sub-registration District: West Brighton
ED, institution, or vessel: 08
Piece: 5128
Household Members:
Name Age
John Richard Miller 31
Anna Elizabeth Miller 32
Lily Anna Miller 3

Douglas John's mother was not married.

This is his birth record (may have been posted already - I haven't checked ) -

WYATT, DOUGLAS JOHN -
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in STEYNING Volume 02B Page 255

If you buy a copy of the birth cert, it will tell you his mother's name.

I don't see him on the 1911 census.

Douglas John's address was Beulah Villa, Plumpton at the time of Douglas M's birth - but he wouldn't be actually working there as a cowman - it was only a house, not a farm.

He would have been lodging there but working at some farm nearby.

In 1939 there are three single ladies living at Beulah Villa - two retired civil servants and a part-time needlework teacher..
I'm not going to post their names, as they are NOT related to Douglas John, and would only create another wild goose chase.
None of them is named Laura, Florence, Wyatt or Blake, for the avoidance of doubt!

Where are you seeing Laura Blake nee Wyatt or Florence Blake nee Wyatt?

Douglas Wyatt, the cowman in 1939 Register, may well be Douglas M's father, but you may never know for sure.

Laura Standing, his wife, is NOT Florence, as already said more than once.

IF Douglas J is indeed his father, Florence Blake, who is proved by the birth cert to be Douglas M's mother, is someone he had a relationship with before he married Laura.
But they DID NOT marry.

The only thing we know about Florence is that she was Douglas M's mother.
That's not enough for us to be able to find out anything else about her.

Sometimes one just has to accept that a dead end has been reached, and I think this is one of those times.
Most of us have at least one dead end in our trees.


There's no point in tracing Laura's ancestors (though we could) , as she is not relevant to the search for Douglas M's parents.

Hi. Yes I read them thank you, so would u say that Laura and dougkas are possible link for Douglas mcdonald wyatt? The birth certificate does mention for Douglas john wyatt that he was working as cowsman on beulah villa in Plumpton RD. What's with the Florence name tho, I'm guessing maybe Douglas mum had changed her name several times? Ad I see Laura blake nee wyatt, Florence blake nee wyatt, and I think another name or 2 somewhere and with a Douglas j wyatt.

Is there a lead I can go on from this info u sent above ? Who is parents of Douglas and Laura?

Ancestry's version of that 1939 is already posted on page 2 of this thread (10 March, 09:55) along with other info. Did you read that, Caris?

:
But posting again here:

Douglas J Wyatt
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Douglas J Wyatt
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 3 Apr 1909
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 98 Sawmill Woodhouse
Residence Place: Petersfield, Hampshire, England
Occupation: Head Cowman
Line Number: 9
Schedule Number: 163
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: EEPC
Borough: Petersfield
Registration district: 103 1
Inferred Spouse:
Laura E Wyatt
Inferred Children:
Lawrence A Wyatt
Household Members Age
Douglas J Wyatt 30
Laura E Wyatt 34 - 30 Aug 1905
This record is officially closed.
Lawrence A Wyatt 2 - 14 May 1937
Laurence A Short 18 - 16 May 1921

Those are the only people in the household, per the image.

The three Wyatts, and probably also the closed record, have been scored through in red, with the notes "see page 20 " and "see page 21" added.

On image 21, there are a lot of closed records, but in amongst them is Laura Wyatt 30/08/1905, Douglas J Wyatt 30/04/1932, and Douglas J Wyatt 3/04/1909, head cowman.
All at 98 Sawmill Woodhouse

If page 20 = image 21, then page 21 (where Lawrence Wyatt is supposed to be) will be image 22.
I don't see Lawrence on image 22, but there are a lot of closed records there, so he's probably one of them.

This has to be the one who married Laura but note there is an another Douglas on the same record and is a head cow man

98 Sawmill Woodhouse, Rowlands Castle, Petersfield R.D., Hampshire, England

name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Douglas Wyart 03 Apr 1909 Male Head Cowman Married 163 1
Laura E Wyart 30 Aug 1905 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 163 2
The record for this person is officially closed.
For individual people, records remain closed for a century after their birth (the 100-year rule), unless it can be proven that they passed away before this milestone. Use the ‘Open This Record’ button if you believe that this person is now deceased
Laurence A Short 14 May 1937 Female Under School Age Single 163 4
Laurence Short 16 May 1921 Male Cowman Single 163 5
Douglas J Wyatt 30 Apr 1932 Male At School Single 163 3
Douglas J Wyatt (Wright) 01 May 1905 Male Head Cowman Married 163 1
The record for this person is officially closed.
For individual people, records remain closed for a century after their birth (the 100-year rule), unless it can be proven that they passed away before this milestone. Use the ‘Open This Record’ button if you believe that this person is now deceased


Edit

But actually opening the record I can’t see that last entry on the actual census page !!

Looking closer to Douglas birth certificate, his father Douglas john wyatt was head cowsman at beulah villa in Plumpton. Any info available plz?

Barnardos aren’t open at the moment because of COVID

They have asked that no requests for children’s records be made at the moment

I do look ups for BHC children on a different site . Descendants of barnardos children asking for info from Barnardos preCovid was a £25 search fee and c£100 for a copy of the file which can take up to and over a year to arrive



https://www.barnardos.org.uk/former-barnardos-children

Ok. Thank you for help il contact Barnardos tomorrow if possible

I posted that Portsmouth birth on 16th March at 20:34, just as one of many births of girls named Florence Emma, or Florence E, Blake.

We don't know where Douglas's mother came from, so there's no way to know which of the many possible births could be hers.

Correction... Florence Emma blKe mmn Elliott. Portsmouth

If Barnardos can't help, you will probably never know anything more about Florence Blake.

We have no clues to go on.
We don't know how old she was when young Douglas was born.
We don't know where she came from.
There are lots of women named Florence Emma, or Florence E, Blake.