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The Edith and Joseph Plant were probally looking afrer Joseph Hill while the parent was working...

1000s of records have been deposited for archive at Birmingham University,,,,,,,it maybe worth a delve to see if any records exsist of New Cross Inst,of discharge they may be able to assit if the entry is over 75 year old,,,,,,,, it could be found when Florence left the New Cross,

Sorry Erika, i missed the bit where you put Thomas Death, i wasn't ignoring it, just had a lot to take in when reading it all back, thank you

Doris, my nephews Gran, her 1st child was called Kathleen but she would of never known that she had a sister Kathleen as well

Thanks, i did see the death for Thomas Hill, I noticed when looking into the Plant side of the family there were Hill's surname so maybe they took him on for some reason as he was born illegitimate. Thank you all. Still a mystery of when Florence died. Sounds like she had a right struggle in life with all these illegitimate births. I have found Margaret A Poultneys (The one that was in the alleged cruelty record) daughter on Facebook and sent a message but she hasn't looked at it as it's probably gone into a secret file. This was before it was confirmed that she was Florence's daughter.

;-) ;-) ;-)

Oh yes, I was looking at Thomas's birth by mistake instead of his death, and thinking Witts was a middle name - duh!

He was Thomas J...no third name, and died aged 18, as per info posted....in Dudley district

Thomas James W was born 1885 in West Bromwich.

Marriage of Thomas James ??

Marriages Sep 1913 (>99%)
Dallaway Edith Poultney Walsall 6b 1366
Poultney Thomas J W Dallaway Walsall 6b 1366

EDIT:

NO, this couple are together in 1939, and as ErikaH points out below, your Thomas was only Thomas J, not Thomas J W.

Surname Given Name Mother District Volume Page Transcriber
Births Mar 1935

Hill Joseph D. Hill Dudley 6b 710,

This maybe Joseph. birth.?


England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007No Image
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Name: Joseph Hill
Death Age: 50
Birth Date: 31 Jan 1935>>>>>as per 1939 register.
Registration Date: Apr 1985
Registration District: Dudley
Inferred County: West Midlands
Volume: 33
Page: 576

I posted the brother’s death

Thank you all so much for your help

Forgot to say Thomas, Florence's brother died 1914 so not sure if he had any children or was married before that but will have to check

Oh wow, sorry only just seen this, thank you. The daughter Doris Poultney was my nephews gran and she was put into a Dr Barnardo's home but we never knew what happened to her mother Florence after she was in the New Cross Institution in 1939. Edith was Florence sister that is correct. We have no contact with any of that family as Doris grew up not knowing her family. Edith Poultney (Plant) had a boy with her in 1939 but it had another name with it as well Joseph Desmond Hill next to his name. I think they might have either adopted him as there was no birth records for his other name Joseph Plant. I noticed all the other illegitimate births and also wondered if they were Florence's children, some of them died but not sure if it was straight after birth or maybe something more serious reading the above. To me that sounds why she was in a Institution. Thanyou for finding this its horrible to know that's what has happened but it answers a lot of questions.

Sister Edith in 1939???????

Name: Edith Plant
[Ann Plant]
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 28 Feb 1900
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 5,
Residence Place: Dudley, Worcestershire, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Line Number: 40
Schedule Number: 69
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: QHAF
Borough: Dudley
Registration district: 372 B 1
Household Members Age
Joseph Plant 44
Edith Plant 39
Joseph Plant 4

Any contact with this branch of the family?

Births Dec 1918 (>99%)
Poultney Kathleen A Poultney Dudley 6b 1546
Births Sep 1919 (>99%)
Poultney Thomas H Poultney Dudley 6b 1666
Births Sep 1920 (>99%)
Poultney Mary A Poultney Dudley 6b 2040
Births Dec 1922 (>99%)
Poultney Thomas W Poultney Dudley 6b 1688
Births Dec 1926 (>99%)
Poultney Thomas J Poultney Dudley 6b 1517
Births Sep 1928 (>99%)
Poultney Edith Poultney Dudley 6b 1531
Births Jun 1930 (>99%)
Poultney Doris Poultney Dudley 6b 1581

GRO confirms their illegitimacy

POULTNEY, KATHLEEN ANNIE -
GRO Reference: 1918 D Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06B Page 1546
POULTNEY, MARY ANN -
GRO Reference: 1920 S Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06B Page 2040
POULTNEY, THOMAS HENRY -
GRO Reference: 1919 S Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06B Page 1666
POULTNEY, THOMAS WILLIAM -
GRO Reference: 1922 D Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06B Page 1688
POULTNEY, THOMAS JAMES -
GRO Reference: 1926 D Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06B Page 1517
POULTNEY, EDITH -
GRO Reference: 1928 S Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06B Page 1531
POULTNEY, DORIS -
GRO Reference: 1930 J Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06B Page 1581


Deaths Sep 1919 (>99%)
Poultney Thomas H 0 Dudley 6b 774
Deaths Mar 1923 (>99%)
POULTNEY Thomas W 0 Dudley 6b 1083
Deaths Mar 1929 (>99%)
Poultney Edith 0 Dudley 6b 1696

I note that Florence had a sister EDITH, and that her father's name was THOMAS, as was her brother's

POULTNEY, THOMAS JAMES WITTS
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 117
Deaths Dec 1914 (>99%)
Poultney Thomas J 18 Dudley 6b 1029

The Florence Louisa in the Child Cruelty case was 23 and her baby was taken to the Union Infirmary, the NSPCC brought the case.
"The Bench (acknowledging that the mother had worked for her 2 children) bound her over for 12 months, especially in regard to the care of her children, warning her if she did not keep the children properly she would yet come up for sentence. Mr Greaves JP: I disagree with the decision."

08 January 1921 - Dudley Chronicle - Dudley, Worcestershire, England

Obviously no way of knowing age or marital status.........long shot

Name: Florence L Poultney
Residence Year: 1946
Street Address: Ridgewood,
Parliamentary Division: Thornbury
Residence Place: Gloucestershire, England

Not at the address in 1939..........Richard and Katherine were there in 1946

Ridgewood Tockington Lane, Almondsbury, Thornbury R.D., Gloucestershire, England
Richard E Potter 03 Oct 1855 Male Retired Land Montage Udc Married 13 1
Harriott I Potter 22 Dec 1865 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 13 2
Katherine A Potter 02 Nov 1906 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Single 13 3
Eileen M Jenkins (Aldridge) 14 Jul 1915 Female Cook Single 13 4
Margaret L Bennett 04 Aug 1920 Female Parlour Maid Single 13 5
Maud Cook (Poyner) 14 Mar 1925 Female Housemaid Single 13 6

But there two more possibles in 1930 too

A tree on ancestry has identitied the child as Doris and notes she was put into barnardos

Married 1951 and passed in 2007

The child was a Mary A Poultney born 1920

Here she is in 1939

: Mary A Poultney
[Mary A Gibbs]
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 25 Jun 1920
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 23 Tenscore Street
Residence Place: West Bromwich, Staffordshire, England
Occupation: Press Worker Spring Works
Line Number: 6
Schedule Number: 108
Sub Schedule Number: 4
Enumeration District: OPBC
Borough: West Bromwich
Registration district: 371/1 21
Household Members Age
Edwin Flavell
70
James Peters
57
Emily Peters
55
Mary A Poultney 19

Did the 1930s child stay with it's mother?

I was wondering whether a school log would give name and address for the parent, which might take the search forward a few years.