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Hello Alviegal,Argyll Gran,

Thanks for these information.

Harriet Ann Kerry

in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995



Name: Harriet Ann Kerry
Death Date: 15 Dec 1949
Death Place: Bury St Edmunds
Probate Date: 30 Mar 1950
Probate Registry: London, England

to Walter Henry Howell.



England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

First name(s) Harriet A
Last name Kerry
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1861
Age 89
Death quarter 1
Death year 1950
District Bury St. Edmunds
County Suffolk



1911 Census For England & Wales

181 Pear Tree Road Derby, Derby, Derbyshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Kerry Head Married Male 49 1862 Church Verger Belton Leicestershire
Harriet Ann Kerry Wife Married Female 50 1861 - Norton Suffolk
Arthur George Howell Nephew Single Male 17 1894 School Singapore S S


Just trying to see if there is any mention of Henry Norman in Nellie's family details.

This is Nellie's father's probate record.

England & Wales Government Probate Death Index 1858-2019


First name(s) James
Last name Howell
Death year 1925
Death date 27 Sep 1925
Probate year 1925
Probate date 17 Oct 1925
Residence town Guildford
Registry London
County Surrey
Linked persons Harriet Ann Kerry
Country England




James Howell

in the England, United Grand Lodge of England Freemason Membership Registers, 1751-1921

Name: James Howell
Gender: Male
Initiation Age: 50
Birth Year: abt 1863
Initiation Date: 11 Jan 1913
First Payment Year on Register: 1913
Year Range: 1910-1921
Profession: School Master
Lodge: Lodge Elliot
Lodge Location: Malacca, Straits Settlements
Lodge Number: 3557
Folio Number: 115


Mentioned in this article.

http://seasiavisions.library.cornell.edu/catalog/seapage:233_283

ErikaH posted FMP's version of that 1939 record.

Here's Ancestry's transcription:


Nellie E Norman
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Nellie E Norman
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Widowed
Birth Date: 5 Jul 1895
Residence Year: 1939
Residence Place: Kensington, London, England
Occupation: Private Means
Line Number: 9
Schedule Number: 159
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: AMDL
Borough: Kensington
Registration district: 2.1 57
Household Members Age
[ Closed record ]
Nellie E Norman 44 - widow, private means
Ena Goodwin 25 - single, domestic service
Noel Poher 25 - single, secretary, engineering firm, unemployed
Margaret Eton 36 - married, boarding house keeper
Otto Heilbrunn 33 - single [presumably later married Terresse below ]
Terresse Bernerr 29 - single [ Obermeier on image, later Heilbrunn ]
Ernest Graham 50 - married, Post Office clerk
Valarie Fuhrmann 46 - divorced, refugee seeking work (later changed name to Forman)
Dorris Fuhrmann 22 - single, refugee seeking work
Robert Fuhrmann 25 - ditto

They're an interesting bunch, including several Germans (or at least with German sounding names), three of whom are refugees.

Noel's name certainly looks more like Poher than Potter - possibly another person of German(ish) origin ??
I don't see any other record for a Noel Poher - but that proves nothing.

But neither is there a Noel Potter birth in England/Wales which would fit with that DOB, unless the year is seriously out.

The Noel Potter listed in 1939 could be related to Henry's mother. Can't seem to find anything though. Is it a mistranscription?

Rose

Doesn't help but I wonder if this is him travelling over. His country of 'last permanant residence' was 'British Possessions' and he intended to settle in Straits.

Passenger Lists Leaving UK 1890-1960

First name(s) H
Last name Norman
Title MR
Gender Male
Age 37
Birth year 1877
Occupation Civil Servant
Departure year 1914
Departure day 10
Departure month 10
Departure port London
Destination port Singapore
Destination Singapore
Country Singapore
Destination country Singapore
Ship name Iyo Maru
Ship official number 7577
Ship master's first name S
Ship master's last name Hirase
Shipping line Nippon Yusen Kaisha
Ship destination port Japan
Ship destination country Japan
Ship registered tonnage 6319

He marries in 1915.

Age 48 on 13 Jan 1945 = born no later than 14 Jan 1897, but, more probably some time in 1896

In the 1939 posted by ErikaH, the YOB 1895 has beenhighlighted in red, implying that was the wrong year, and a correction made somewhere.
If that's her, YOB should be c1897.



??
Nellie Elvira Norman
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Nellie Elvira Norman
Electoral Date: 1938
Street Address: 807 Duncan House
Ward or Division/Constituency: City of Westminster
County or Borough: Westminster, England

Also there in 1939 ER.


Nellie Elvira Norman
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Nellie Elvira Norman
Electoral Date: 1930
Street Address: Ruskin Manor
Ward or Division/Constituency: Camberwell
County or Borough: Southwark, England

Ruskin Manor seems to be a large establishment (boarding house or similar) - address 163 Denmark Hill.

Probate to the Bank suggests no issue.

Deaths Mar 1945 (>99%)
Norman Nellie E 48 Hampstead 1a 576

Apparently not born in England/Wales.

Deaths Mar 1945 (>99%)
Norman Nellie E 48 Hampstead 1a 576

1939......maybe
24 Nevern Square, Earls Court, Kensington And Chelsea, Kensington, London, England
Eva (R) ~??? 11 Oct 1919 Female Private Means Single 159 1
Nellie E Norman 05 Jul 1895 Female Private Means Widowed 159 2
Ena Goodwin 25 Mar 1914 Female Domestic Service Single 159 3
Noel Potter 25 Mar 1914 Female (Unemployed) Firm Secretary Engineering Single 159 4
Margaret Eton 12 Dec 1903 Female Boarding House Keeper Married 159 5

died 1945 at belsize park tube staion of orman court orman road hamstead
probate to lloyds bank


First name(s) Nellie Elvira
Last name Norman
Publication year 1945
Issue date 16 Feb 1945
Issue number 36943
Periodical London Gazette
Country England
Record set London Gazette 1665-2018
Category Directories & social history
Subcategory Newspapers & Magazines
Collections from England, Great Britain

Nellie Elvira
Last name Norman
Death year 1945
Death date 13 Jan 1945
Probate year 1945
Probate date 23 Apr 1945
Residence town London
Registry Llandudno
County London
Linked persons Lloyds Bank
Country England
Record set England & Wales Government Probate Death Index 1858-2019
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials

Record Transcription:
People In The News
What can I do with this record?
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First name(s) Nellie Elvira
Last name Norman
Periodical Manchester Evening News
Location Manchester, Lancashire, England, London
Publication date 26 February 1940
Page number 5
Publication place Manchester, Lancashire, England
Other names Evelyn Panting, Granville Sharp, Henry James Wilfred Castle, Eric Fogg, Charles William Eric Fogg, John Dodd, James Holden, Stephen Treen, Agnes Maud Treen, William Treen, Wilson Reginald Harrison
Record set People In The News
Category Directories & social history
Subcategory Newspapers & Magazines

He married Nellie E.Howell in Malacca.So I think there wouldn't be any marriage information in U.K.Maybe I'll try to check with british newspapers website.

https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

Send for a copy of his Will which could throw more light,

Henry Norman,--of Elso Baite,Tourasse St France,died 20th Decmeber 1927,Probate London to -Nellie Elvira Norman widow-effects,£426-4d GBP.(in the grand scheme of things not a great deal of money at the time.)

A copy will cost £10 GBP.and can be downloaded,,but probally not avaliable in current climate.

Winson -

What proof do you have that Henry Norman of the Malayan civil service was the same person as the son of Alfred Blake Norman of Derbyshire and Oakham, who never lived in Bath?

Do you have proof that Henry was even born in the UK?

Do you have his marriage cert, which would give his father's full name, hopefully?

"Dr Norman of Bath" isn't much to go on. I assume that's a quote from one of your Malayan historical documents.


Safc only posted the censuses for Alfred and family as a possibility because of Alfred's occupation and the fact that he had a son of the right name, born about the right time.
That doesn't prove it's the right family.

However, Alfred's son Henry does seem to disappear from the UK records after 1891.

Ok,thanks.I have did a research upon all all names has been given.

Born in 1878 Oakham,Rutland.Son of Dr Alfred Blake Norman & Florence East Potter of Bath.He married Nellie Howell in Malacca.Died in 1928 St Jean de Luz.France.


His siblings:-



i) Dr.George Blake Norman (1876-1954) married Sylvia Katherine Coryndon Luxmoore.

ii) Edith Gertrude Norman (1878-?) married Arthur Henry Tisdall Samuels.

iii) Alfred Cecil Norman (1879-1963).

iv) Florence Muriel Norman (1881-?).

v) Evelyn Mary Norman (1882-1884).

vi) Mary F Norman (1886-1970) married John Davenport Newall Molesworth.


Their issue:-

ai) John Henry Nassau Molesworth (1913-1994) married Pamela Joan Guildford.

His issue:-

bi) Peter John Norman Molesworth married Julie Anne Wicks.


His issue:-


ci) Frances Jane Molesworth.

cii) John Henry Molesworth.

25 January 1928,

NORMAN. -Dec. 20. at St. Jean de Luz Henry Norman, late Malayan Civil Service aged 50.

Rose

Record Transcription:
Derbyshire Registrars Marriage Index
What can I do with this record?
Add To Tree
Is this the same person?
We've found the following potential record matches for the same person in other record sets
Alfred B Norman
Census Record
Derbyshire, England
Year of census: 1851
Alfred Blake Norman
Parish Baptisms Record
Derbyshire, England
Year of birth: 1849
Alfred Blake Norman
Civil Births Record
Derbyshire, England
Year of birth: 1849
Alfred Blake Norman
Civil Births Record
Nottinghamshire, England
Year of birth: 1849
First name(s) Alfred Blake
Last name Norman
Sex Male
Marriage year 1875
Parish St.Mary
Place Ilkeston
Spouse's first name Florence East
Spouse's last name Potter
County Derbyshire
Country England
Register Office 396
Reference C10/03/132
Record set Derbyshire Registrars Marriage Index
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
Collections from England, Great Britain

That Alfred Norman is still in Oakham in 1901 and 1911 - but no mention of Bath:

Alfred Blake Norman
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Alfred Blake Norman
Age in 1911: 61
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Ilkeston, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Oakham
Country: England
Street Address: Oakham
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Largeon [ Surgeon ]
Registration District Number: 409
Sub-registration District: Oakham
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Piece: 19386
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Blake Norman 61
Florence East Norman 54
Edith Gertrude Samuels 33 - daughter, married 2 years
Edith Rycraft 19 - servant
Olive Susannh Handley Horsley 20 - servant


and in 1935:

Alfred Blake Norman
in the UK & Ireland, Medical Directories, 1845-1942
Name: Alfred Blake Norman
Residence Date: 1935
Residence Place: Market Pl., Oakham, Rutland
Directory: The Medical Directory

LRCP, Edinburgh and LM, 1870.
MRCS, Eng. 1870
(St Geo)
Certif. Fact. Surg.


If the reference to Bath is correct, I think he's a red herring.

Record Transcription:
England Marriages 1538-1973
What can I do with this record?
Add To Tree
Is this the same person?
We've found the following potential record matches for the same person in other record sets
Alfred B Norman
Census Record
Derbyshire, England
Year of census: 1851
Alfred Blake Norman
Parish Baptisms Record
Derbyshire, England
Year of birth: 1849
Alfred Blake Norman
Civil Births Record
Derbyshire, England
Year of birth: 1849
Alfred Blake Norman
Civil Births Record
Nottinghamshire, England
Year of birth: 1849
First name(s) Alfred Blake
Last name Norman
Name note -
Age 25
Marriage year 1875
Marriage date 02 Feb 1875
Marriage place Ilkeston
Father's first name(s) George Blake
Father's last name Norman
Spouse's first name(s) Florence Ea.
Spouse's last name Jenkins
Spouse's age 21
Spouse's birth year 1854
Spouse's birth date 1854
Spouse's father's first name(s) John
Spouse's father's last name Jenkins
Residence Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England
County Derbyshire
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain