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Lynne From Up North !!
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19 Jan 2021 14:20 |
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It is a while since I visited Genes Reunited and I have posted about this lady before.
I still require some further help / assistance.
This is what I know:
Janet Bell, Spinster of full age marries
John Balmer, Bachelor also of full age
on the 15th November 1876 at Dalston, Cumberland.
The above two people are my paternal great grandparents.
The trouble I am having is establishing who Janet Bell is and this is what I know about her:
According to census information:
1881 census - born Kirkpatrick, Scotland
1891 census - born Scotland
1901 census - born Carlisle
I checked at the Archives Office for the marriage between John Balmer and Janet Bell - this indicated that Janet's father was called John Bell and that he was a labourer, deceased.
I am even more curious about Janet Bell as I received my DNA results recently and these indicate that I am over 40% Scottish - this is the only link that I have found to date with Scotland.
I have found a few Janet Bells in the right area, but have no concrete evidence as to whether any of the Janet's would be my great grandmother.
How will I ever know?????
Thank you
Lynne
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ErikaH
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19 Jan 2021 14:40 |
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Better to add this to your previous thread, or people may be wasting time looking for info already found
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1380635
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safc
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19 Jan 2021 14:41 |
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????
Record Transcription:
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
North Angle, Kirkpatrick Fleming, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
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Is this the same person?
We've found the following potential record matches for the same person in other record sets
Jane Bell
Census Record
Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Year of census: 1871
Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Bell Head Married Male 39 1822 Ag Lab England
Jane Bell Wife Married Female 32 1829 - Dornock, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
William Bell Son - Male 11 1850 Scholar Gretna, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
James Bell Son - Male 9 1852 Scholar Gretna, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Janet Bell Daughter - Female 4 1857 - Dumfriesshire, Scotland ???????????????????
Jane Ann Bell Daughter - Female 0 1861 - Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Charles Bell Uncle Unmarried Male 63 1798 Ag Lab Middlebie, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
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safc
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19 Jan 2021 14:45 |
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BELL
JANET
F
1856
837/ 55
Kirkpatrick Fleming (Dumfries)
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Maddie
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19 Jan 2021 15:12 |
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???????
Name: Janet Bell
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 12 Nov 1856
Birth Place: Kirkpatrick-Fleming,Dumfries,Scotland
Father:
John Bell
Mother:
Jane Lockhart
FHL Film Number: 6035516
in the 1861 Scotland Census
1861 Scotland Census No Image
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Name: Janet Bell
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relationship: Daughter
Father's Name: John Bell
Mother's Name: Jane Bell
Gender: Female
Where born: K Fleming, dumfriessh
Registration Number: 837
Registration District: Kirkpatrick Fleming
Civil Parish: Kirkpatrick Fleming
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: North Angle
ED: 2
Household Schedule Number: 55
Line: 6
Roll: CSSCT1861_144
Household Members:
Name Age
John Bell 39
Jane Bell 32
William Bell 11
James Bell 9
Janet Bell 4
Jane Ann Bell 7 Mo
Charles Bell 63
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safc
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19 Jan 2021 15:25 |
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????
Record Transcription:
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Yard Off Downies Wynd, Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
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Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Bell Head Married Male 31 1830 Labourer Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Margaret Bell Wife Married Female 27 1834 - Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Janet Bell Daughter - Female 7 1854 Scholar Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
William Bell Son - Male 5 1856 Scholar Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Jane Bell Daughter - Female 3 1858 - Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Elisabeth Bell Daughter - Female 1 1860 - Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
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safc
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19 Jan 2021 15:27 |
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Record Transcription:
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Port Street, Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
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Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Margaret Bell Head Widow Female 37 1834 Warehouseman's Widow Dumfriesshire, Scotland xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Janet Bell Daughter - Female 17 1854 Dressmaker Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
William Bell Son - Male 15 1856 Mill Worker Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Jane Bell Daughter - Female 13 1858 Mill Worker Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Elizabeth Bell Daughter - Female 10 1861 Scholar Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
James Bell Son - Male 9 1862 Scholar Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Mary Bell Daughter - Female 6 1865 - Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Thomas M Bell Boarder Unmarried Female 4 1867 - Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
John Carruthers Boarder Unmarried Male 29 1842 Warehouseman Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
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safc
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19 Jan 2021 15:28 |
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BELL
JANET
JOHN BELL/MARGARET JOHNSTONE FR284 (FR284)
F
23/04/1854
812/
20 413
Annan
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safc
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19 Jan 2021 15:32 |
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Surname Forename Age at death Mother's Maiden Name Year Ref RD Name Image View
BELL
JOHN
39
HOPE
1869
812/ 31
Annan
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safc
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19 Jan 2021 15:36 |
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BELL
JOHN
MARGARET JOHNSTONE/FR810 (FR810)
18/04/1854
812/
30 188
Annan
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Maddie
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19 Jan 2021 15:43 |
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BELL
JOHN
WILLIAM BELL/WILHELMINA ARMSTRONG FR572 (FR572)
M
26/11/1820
814/
30 12
Canonbie
in the 1871 Scotland Census
1871 Scotland Census No Image
Text-only collection
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Name: John Bell
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Jane Bell
Gender: Male
Where born: Canonbie, Dumfriesshire
Registration Number: 814
Registration District: Canonbie
Civil Parish: Canonbie
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Rowanburn
Occupation: Coal Miner
ED: 1
Household Schedule Number: 151
Line: 13
Roll: CSSCT1871_182
Household Members:
Name Age
John Bell 50
Jane Bell 41
William Bell 5 --- nephew
LOCKHART
JANET
JOHN LOCKHART/JANET WELSH FR161 (FR161)
F
08/08/1830
841/
20 40
Middlebie
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Lynne From Up North !!
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19 Jan 2021 15:47 |
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Thank you safc
I need to take a look at all the info you have posted.
Lynne
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alviegal
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20 Jan 2021 14:28 |
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Ok so have a look at this.
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Beltenmont, Kirkpatrick Fleming(Dumfries), Annandale, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Bell Head Widower Male 63 1788 Gardener England
Elizabeth Bell Daughter Unmarried Female 25 1826 House Keeper Dumfriesshire, Scotland
>>>Irving Bell Grand Son - Male 8 1843 Scholar England
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Exeter Place, Caldewgate, Carlisle, Cumberland, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Bell Head Married Male 54 1807 Labourer Scotland
Mary Bell Wife Married Female 51 1810 - Scotland
Margaret Bell Daughter Unmarried Female 29 1832 - Hutton, Cumberland, England
>>Irving Bell Son Unmarried Male 19 1842 Clogger Carlisle, Cumberland, England
>>Thomas Bell Son - Male 4 1857 - Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Margaret Bell Granddaughter - Female 9 1852 Scholar Longtown, Cumberland, England
Mary Bell Granddaughter - Female 6 1855 Scholar Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Joseph Hodgson Boarder Widower Male 87 1774 Labourer Cumberland, England
William Ackinson Boarder Unmarried Male 26 1835 Miller Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
High Burnthwaite, High Blackwell, Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Clement Skelton Sutton Head - Male 42 1829 - Cumberland, England
Isabella Sutton Wife - Female 32 1839 - Dornock, Dumfriesshire Scotland
Mary Jane Sutton Daughter - Female 4 1867 - Cumberland, England
Alice Sutton Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Cumberland, England
John Stordy Sutton Son - Male 0 1871 - Cumberland, England
Robert Sutton Brother - Male 33 1838 - Cumberland, England
Dixon Jefferson Servant - Male 24 1847 - Cumberland, England
James Bateman Servant - Male 23 1848 - Cumberland, England
George Cairns Servant - Male 34 1837 - Scotland
>>Thomas Bell Servant - Male 16 1855 - Carlisle, Cumberland, England
>>Janet Bell Servant - Female 22 1849 - Kirkpatrick, Scotland
Ellen Darvis Servant - Female 28 1843 - Cumberland, England
Mary Wilson Servant - Female 9 1862 - Cumberland, England
It's very tentative but if Irving is the brother of Thomas who is the brother of Janet in 1871, that would make their parents John 1807 and Mary 1810. In turn, John 1788 would be the father of John 1807.
I have to go to work just now :-( but maybe someone could look for a connection? As I say, it's most probably wildly off course. Relying on a lot of ifs.
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ErikaH
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20 Jan 2021 15:05 |
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Name: Irving Bell
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 15 Aug 1841
Baptism Place: Holy Trinity,Carlisle,Cumberland,England
Father: John Bell
Mother: Mary
BELL, THOMAS HODGSON (MMN) IRVING
GRO Reference: 1856 S Quarter in CARLISLE Volume 10B Page 374
1871
Mary Bell Wife - Female 61 1810 - Scotland
Adam Bell Son - Male 26 1845 - Cumberland, England
Thomas H Bell Son - Male 14 1857 - Cumberland, England
Margaret Bell Granddaughter - Female 19 1852 - Cumberland, England
Mary Ann Bell Granddaughter - Female 5 1866 - Cumberland, England
John Bell Grandson - Male 3 1868 - Cumberland, England
William Bell Son - Male 39 1832 - Cumberland, England
Mary Bell Daughter-In-Law - Female 42 1829 - Cumberland, England
James Bell Grandson - Male 11 1860 - Cumberland, England
Thomas Bell Grandson - Male 9 1862 - Cumberland, England
Joseph Bell Grandson - Male 5 1866 - Cumberland, England
Name: Adam Bell
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 10 Sep 1843
Baptism Place: Holy Trinity,Carlisle,Cumberland,England
Father: John Bell
Mother: Mary
Name: Mary Ann Bell
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 8 Mar 1855
Baptism Place: Wigton, Cumberland, England
Mother:
Margaret Bell
FHL Film Number: 252837
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ErikaH
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20 Jan 2021 15:09 |
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Realistically, I don't think the two families are the same.................it doesn't seem 'right' that the parents would have several children in Cumberland, then return to Dumfriesshire to have Janet ..............................
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Lynne From Up North !!
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20 Jan 2021 19:57 |
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Thank you.
I feel that unless another descendent of Janet's family has their DNA analysed then I may never find the connection!
This is really frustrating as Janet (so far) is the only person in my tree of 2700 plus people that originate from Scotland!
Janet and John had 13 children and at least 60 grandchildren!
Thank you all once again!
Lynne
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Marked as Answered