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I am trying to find more details about my great grandmother.

My Grandfather was Harold Hilton born 3 April 1898 in Lancashire. His father was John Hilton and his mother was Mary. The source for John is from Harold's marriage and that of his mother's name from Harold's descriptive report on enlistment. The address of 20 Hardy Street, Peel Green is known to be correct, but his mother's name appears as Mary Ann and we thought it was Mary Ellen.

Harold Hilton does not appear on any census for 1901 although he could be there, mis-transcribed as Harold Holton with parents John and Mary Ellen Hilton in 132 Medlock Street in Hulme. 10 years later in 28 vicarage Grove, Eccles the siblings Robert, Nellie and John Jr are also present. I know about John Jr who was called Jack and have heard about Nellie. I am therefore quite confident that this is the correct Harold and that his mother's name was indeed Mary Ellen.

From the 1901 census there is also a niece present called Mary Brazier. I was helped to find a connection of two sisters call Worrall. One was Mary Ellen who married John Hilton in 1891 and the other Elizabeth A who married John Brazier on 10 Nov 1888. The witnesses at that wedding were John Hilton and Mary Ellen Worrall. Elizabeth later had a daughter called Mary who in 1901 would have been 11 as she appeared on the census with Harold.

The issue I am having is that on another genealogy website, there is a public tree which has the same John Hilton married to a Mary Ellen Walsh. They then appear as parent to my grandfather and his siblings. I think that this is incorrect but I am not sure how to be certain. I have sent off for the marriage certificate of John Hilton and Mary Ellen Worrall (Q3 1891 Salford) and I'm hoping that the witnesses or the location of the marriage might help to confirm that they are the correct couple.

I was wondering if anyone had any other ideas of what I could look for to confirm details. One other thing that is surprising is that in 1911 John Hilton's occupation was Petroleum Oil clerk, but when he was in Medlock Street he was a bread maker / confectioner. It seems a strange change of occupation. Harold was born in Winton which is in the Eccles area of Manchester but then the family moved to Hulme which although only 6 miles away was a reasonable distance in that time. What I did find was that two of the Worrall brothers, Joseph and Charles were Shop Manager and Grocer, so that could be the link to John having a shop for a few years.

I cant find details of Joh Hilton's death but I presume it to be between 1911 (census) and 1917 (Harold's enlistment).
Likewise I cannot find any records of Robert's death. According to the 1911 census he was born in 1903 but my father does not know of him. I have also been searching for details of Nellie and what happened to Mary Ellen, but have not had much success.

I'd be grateful if anyone can point me in the right direction to search as I seem to be going round in circles with the same information which I am not certain is correct. Many thanks and Happy Christmas.

If you put Harolds details into the GRO website you can now get the mother’s maiden name.

There is this birth with mother's maiden name Worrel:-

HILTON, HAROLD WORREL
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 678

However there are other births for the name Harold Hilton in Lancashire in the June qtr. of 1898.

Kath. x

For our info:

Harold Hilton
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Harold Hilton
Age in 1911: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1899
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Winton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Eccles
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 28 Vicarage Grove Eccles Lancashire
Occupation: School (chemists Errand Boy)
Registration District: Barton upon Irwell
Registration District Number: 463
Sub-registration District: Barton
ED, institution, or vessel: 08
Piece: 23591
Household Members:
Name Age
John Hilton 47
Mary Ellen Hilton 45
Harold Hilton 12
Robert Hilton 7
Nellie Hilton 3
John Hilton 1



HILTON, NELLIE mmn WORRALL
GRO Reference: 1908 M Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 686

HILTON, HAROLD mmn WORREL
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 678

HILTON, JOHN mmn WORRALL
GRO Reference: 1909 S Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 645

HILTON, ROBERT mmn WORRALL
GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 987

Marriages Sep 1891 (>99%)
Hilton John Salford 8d 247
Worrall Mary Ellen Salford 8d 247

Thanks namelessone. I have looked there previously and again just now, but I can't see where the maiden name appears. I must be missing something.

These are the other births in the June qtr. of 1898:-

HILTON, HAROLD HOUSTON
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 636
HILTON, HAROLD ANDERSON
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 2
HILTON, HAROLD BROOKS
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 335
HILTON, HAROLD CATON
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in BURY Volume 08C Page 631
HILTON, HAROLD MAUDSLEY
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in ASHTON UNDER LYNE Volume 08D Page 550
HILTON, HAROLD WORREL
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 678

Kath. x

I didn't know about the GRO index. That is really great. Thank you all for such speedy responses. I think it does confirm Worrall as Mary Ellen's maiden name.

Never believe anything you find on someone's tree,unless you have checked it all out for yourself.

Probable marriage of Nellie:

Nellie Hilton
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Nellie Hilton
Registration Date: Jan 1932
[Feb 1932]
[Mar 1932]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Barton upon Irwell
Inferred County: Lancashire
Spouse: Henry E Hurt
Volume Number: 8c
Page Number: 1143




Nellie Hurt
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Nellie Hurt [Nellie Ellis]
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 24 Feb 1908
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 2
Residence Place: Sheffield, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Line Number: 39
Schedule Number: 184
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: KIYC
Borough: Sheffield
Registration district: Sheffield 510 5
Inferred Spouse:
Henry E Hurt
Household Members Age
Henry E Hurt 34
Nellie Hurt 31 - 24 Feb 1908

Two closed records with them.

A Hurt/Hilton son was born in 1938 in Sheffield - you'lll find him on FreeBMD.


Nellie's second marriage:

Marriages Mar 1959 (>99%)
ELLIS Sidney HURT Sheffield 2d 392
HURT Nellie ELLIS Sheffield 2d 392


and her death:

Nellie Ellis
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Nellie Ellis
Death Age: 88
Birth Date: 24 Feb 1908
Registration Date: Apr 1996
Registration District: Chesterfield
Inferred County: Derbyshire
Register Number: B42E
District and Subdistrict: 3931B
Entry Number: 257

Re maiden name in birth records on GRO site - births appear exactly as I've posted them, except for "mmn" which I added for (hopefully) clarity.

ArgyllGran, thanks that is really helpful. this was the information I had found about Nellie but I wasn't sure whether it was correct. I didn't want to trust the info on the other tree as I couldn't match everything up.

I think what you have all found has confimed the information I had which is lovely.

One last thing, I found who I think is my John Hilton b1863 or 64 on the 1891 census at 29 Cumberland St in Broughton Salford. He was 27 and a book keeper which would tally with his later job of clerk.

I have also found, just now on GRO John's possible birth in Salford in 1863
HILTON, JOHN BAILEY
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 44

I had previously found a marriage of John Hilton (father) to Jane Bailey in 1854 in Salford.
There are lots of siblings on this and the other census of the same family with John and Jane.

Am I jumping to conclusions that this is the correct John Hilton (son) who married Mary Ellen Worrall and that therefore these are all aunts and uncles to my grandfather Harold?

If these censuses below are the ones you found, then I think you're jumping to the correct conclusion.

John Hilton
in the 1871 England Census
Name: John Hilton
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: 1863
Relation: Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Salford Lancashire England
Civil Parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephan
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration District: Salford
Sub-registration District: Greengate
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Household Schedule Number: 167
Piece: 4019
Folio: 16
Page Number: 29
Household Members:
Name Age
John Hilton 37
Jane Hilton 37
Mary Jane Hilton 12
Elizabeth Hilton 10
John Hilton 8
Tom Hilton 6
Henry Hilton 4
Annie Hilton 1
Henry Barley 29 [ Bailey on image}
Ellen Barley 30
Henry Barley 1


John Hilton
in the 1881 England Census
Name: John Hilton
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relationship to Head: Son
Mother: Jane Hilton
Gender: Male
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: Rosamond St 41
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Warehouseman
Registration District: Salford
Sub registration district: Greengate
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors:
Piece: 3960
Folio: 58
Page Number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Hilton 47
Elizabeth Hilton 20
John Hilton 17
Tom Hilton 15
Henry Hilton 13
Anna Hilton 11
William Hilton 9
Eliza Hilton 4


John Hilton
in the 1891 England Census
Name: John Hilton
Gender: Male
Age: 27
Relationship: Son
Birth Year: 1864
Father: John Hilton
Mother: Jane Hilton
Birth Place: Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Broughton
Ecclesiastical parish: Church of the Ascension
Residence Place: Broughton, Lancashire, England
Registration District: Salford
Sub registration district: Broughton [Near Salford]
ED, Institution or Vessel: 7
Neighbors:
Piece: 3211
Folio: 39
Household Members:
Name Age
John Hilton 55
Jane Hilton 57
Elizabeth Hilton 30
John Hilton 27
Tom Hilton 25
Henry Hilton 23
Annie Hilton 21
William Hilton 19
Eliza Hilton 14

Jane is a widow by 1911:


Jane Hilton
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Jane Hilton
Age in 1911: 77
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Broughton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 40 Wellington St East Hr Broughton Lancashire
Marital status: Widowed
Registration District: Salford
Registration District Number: 465
Sub-registration District: Broughton
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Piece: 24007
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Hilton 77
Elizabeth Hilton 50
Eliza Hilton 34


John senior is still alive in 1901 :

Jane Wilton
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Jane Wilton
Age: 67
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Spouse: John Wilton
Birth Place: Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Broughton
Ecclesiastical parish: Lower Broughton The Ascension
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 26 Irwell Place
Occupation:
Registration District: Salford
Sub-registration District: Broughton
ED, institution, or vessel: 07
Neighbors:
Piece: 3722
Folio: 160
Page Number: 40
Household Schedule Number: 255
Household Members:
Name Age
John Wilton 67 - [something] baker
Jane Wilton 67
Elizabeth Wilton 40
William Wilton 29
Eliza Wilton 24


Deaths Mar 1907 (>99%)
HILTON John 73 Salford 8d 65

Re death of John 1863 -

Have you ruled this one out?

John Hilton
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: John Hilton
Death Age: 61
Birth Date: abt 1863
Registration Date: Oct 1924
[Nov 1924]
[Dec 1924]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District: Barton upon Irwell <<<<<<<<<<
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 655


The family were in Barton reg district in 1911, and Nellie was married there in 1932.

Just because Harold's mother is named as NOK on his army record, it doesn't necessarily mean that his father had died.