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ErikaH
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31 Oct 2020 15:24 |
We need more info from Edward. We're speculating somewhat at the moment
He has the Gill line (his wife's) in his GR tree, plus Alice, so we need to know who he thinks she was married to
Several GR members have Mansell Gill in trees. One of them has the surname Sanders
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ArgyllGran
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31 Oct 2020 15:14 |
The same Alice in 1881??
Alice Clark in the 1881 England Census Name: Alice Clark Age: 3 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878 Relationship to Head: Granddaughter Gender: Female Where born: Alton, Hampshire, England Civil Parish: Alton County/Island: Hampshire Country: England Street Address: Church Street Education: Employment status: View image Occupation: Scholar Registration District: Alton ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Neighbors: Piece: 1245 Folio: 111 Page Number: 22 Household Members: Name Age William Stiles 53 - London, pensioner, 10th Regt Foot Mary Stiles 56 - Worldham, Hants. Ada Stiles 16 - daughter, Africa Alice Clark 3 - grand-daughter
CLARKE, ALICE MARY mms STILES GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in ALTON Volume 02C Page 161
That would fit the birth date of 28 May 1877 given in 1939.
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ArgyllGran
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31 Oct 2020 15:06 |
Yes, I wondered about that one.
A possible sibling of the Alice Stiles in the 1891 posted by Erika above ???
Births Dec 1876 (>99%) STILES George Alton 2c 152
I can't see this one GRO.
EDIT:
No, this looks like him in 1881 - no Alice in the family:
George Stiles in the 1881 England Census Name: George Stiles Age: 4 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877 Relationship to Head: Son Father: William Stiles Mother: Esther Stiles Gender: Male Where born: East Worldham, Hampshire, England Civil Parish: Binsted County/Island: Hampshire Country: England Education: Employment status: View image Registration District: Alton Sub registration district: Binsted ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: Piece: 1247 Folio: 27 Page Number: 4 Household Members: Name Age William Stiles 29 Esther Stiles 29 William J. Stiles 7 Eliza J. Stiles 5 George Stiles 4 Goodwin Stiles 1
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ErikaH
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31 Oct 2020 14:54 |
?????????????
Name: Alice Stiles Gender: Female Age: 14 Relationship: Pauper; Inmate (Pauper) Birth Year: 1877 Birth Place: Alton, Hampshire, England Civil Parish: Crondall Ecclesiastical parish: Crondall Residence Place: Crondall, Crondall, Hampshire, England Registration District: Hartley Wintney Sub registration district: Odiham ED, Institution or Vessel: Farnham and Hartley Wintney District School
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ArgyllGran
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31 Oct 2020 14:41 |
It looks as if her birth was registered under another surname, and then perhaps her mother married or remarried a Stiles. You may need to buy her 1896 marriage cert to see what it says about her father (if known).
Possibiities:
Births Jun 1877 (>99%) Hamilton Alice Maud M Fareham 2b 533 HOLMES Alice Maud M Midhurst 2b 377
Births Sep 1877 (>99%) CORBEN Alice Maud M Portsea 2b 407 DAVIES Alice Maud M Portsea 2b 444
None of those were illegitimate births.
Or maybe she was born somewhere else, but then brought up in Portsmouth/Portsea from an early age, so thought she had been born there.
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ArgyllGran
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31 Oct 2020 14:36 |
Alice M Sanders in the 1939 England and Wales Register Name: Alice M Sanders Gender: Female Marital status: Widowed Birth Date: 28 May 1877 Residence Year: 1939 Address: 14 Bosham Road Residence Place: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties Line Number: 28 Schedule Number: 209 Sub Schedule Number: 1 Enumeration District: EBCD Borough: Portsmouth Registration District: 90/1 Household Members: Name Alice M Sanders Alfred J Mahon William A Mahon
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ErikaH
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31 Oct 2020 14:35 |
SANDERS, EDWIN SANDERS (MMN) STILES GRO Reference: 1896 D Quarter in SOUTH MOLTON Volume 05B Page 433
SANDERS, ELLEN MARIA (MMN) STILES GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in SOUTH MOLTON Volume 05B Page 402
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ArgyllGran
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31 Oct 2020 14:34 |
Alice Sanders in the 1911 England Census Name: Alice Sanders Age in 1911: 34 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Female Birth Place: Portsmouth, Hampshire Civil Parish: Charles County/Island: Devon Country: England Street Address: Village, Charles, Near South Molton. Marital status: Widowed Registration District: South Molton Registration District Number: 283 Sub-registration District: South Molton ED, institution, or vessel: 06 Piece: 13298 Household Members: Name Age Alice Sanders 34 William Sanders 13 Ellen Sanders 10 Alice Sanders 9 Emily Sanders 7 Frederick Sanders 1
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ArgyllGran
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31 Oct 2020 14:25 |
Alice M Sanders in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 Name: Alice M Sanders Death Age: 85 Birth Date: abt 1877 Registration Date: Jul 1962 [Aug 1962] [Sep 1962] Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep Registration District: Portsmouth Inferred County: Hampshire Volume: 6b Page: 437
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ArgyllGran
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31 Oct 2020 14:24 |
William George Sanders in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 Name: William George Sanders Death Age: 71 Birth Date: 31 Mar 1898 Registration Date: Jan 1970 [Feb 1970] [Mar 1970] Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar Registration District: Barnstaple Inferred County: Devon Volume: 7a Page: 750
William George H Sanders in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915 Name: William George H Sanders Registration Year: 1897 Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec Registration District: Barnstaple Inferred County: Devon Volume: 5b Page: 423
William Sanders in the 1901 England Census Name: William Sanders Age: 3 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898 Relation to Head: Son Gender: Male Father: George Sanders Mother: Alice Sanders Birth Place: Charles, Devon, England Civil Parish: Charles Ecclesiastical parish: Charles St John the Baptist County/Island: Devon Country: England Street Address: Occupation: Registration District: South Molton Sub-registration District: South Molton ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Neighbors: Piece: 2142 Folio: 7 Page Number: 2 Household Schedule Number: 10 Household Members: Name Age George Sanders 30 Alice Sanders 26 Edwin Sanders 4 William Sanders 3 Ellen Sanders 1
Alice Maud M Stiles in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915 Name: Alice Maud M Stiles Registration Year: 1896 Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep Registration District: South Molton Inferred County: Devon Volume: 5b Page: 839 Records on Page: Name George Henry Sanders Alice Maud M Stiles
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ErikaH
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31 Oct 2020 14:09 |
1939 Dadds Tenement Whitsford Cross, South Molton, South Molton R.D., Devon, England
George Hill 08 Mar 1875 Male Farmer Married 16 1 Ellen Hill 07 Oct 1866 Female Household Duties Married 16 2 William Sanders 31 Mar 1898 Male Labourer (Agriculture) Single 16 3
SANDERS, WILLIAM GEORGE (MMN) STILES GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in SOUTH MOLTON Volume 05B Page 413
So there is a Stiles connection, but not StYles.
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ErikaH
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31 Oct 2020 13:54 |
Ellen Crocker (Hill) before her marriage to George 1871 Name: George Saunders Age: 36 Estimated Birth Year: 1835 Relation: Head Gender: Male Where born: Selworthy Devon England Civil Parish: Charles County/Island: Devon Country: England Registration District: South Molton Sub-registration District: South Molton ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Household Schedule Number: 11 Piece: 2181 Folio: 65 Page Number: 3 Household Members: Name Age George Saunders 36 Maria Saunders 35 Maria Saunders 7 Ellen C Saunders 6 George H Saunders 1
Name: Maria Crocker Registration Year: 1856 Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep Registration District: South Molton Inferred County: Devon Volume: 5b Page: 787 Maria Crocker George Sanders
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ErikaH
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31 Oct 2020 13:46 |
Edward has Alice in his GR tree - it would be interesting to see who he has as her husband
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ErikaH
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31 Oct 2020 13:42 |
Name: George Hill Death Date: 8 Mar 1940 Death Place: Devon, England Probate Date: 23 May 1940 Probate Registry: London, England
Probate to Bessie (wife of Mansell Gill)
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ErikaH
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31 Oct 2020 11:41 |
Mansell Gill is in the poster’s GR tree
1939
Tossells Barton, South Molton, South Molton R.D., Devon, England Mansell Gill 28 Nov 1898 Male Farmer Married 13 1 Bessie Gill 23 Dec 1906 Female Household Duties Married 13 2 The record for this person is officially closed. Wilfred J Gill 25 Oct 1931 Male At School Single 13 4
First name(s) BESSIE Last name GILL Gender Female Birth day - Birth month - Birth year 1907 Age 56 Death quarter 4 Death year 1963 District Barnstaple
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31 Oct 2020 11:03 |
Someone has compiled a WikiTree, but there are no certificates for Bessie.
Edward needs to get her marriage certificate and work back from there. There are several Hill/Sanders marriages in South Molton.
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Sanders-15205
Rose
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ErikaH
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31 Oct 2020 10:22 |
Arthur R Gill, MMN Sanders
Mansell Gill m. Bessie Sanders. JFM 1929
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ErikaH
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31 Oct 2020 10:13 |
Edward
Which of your father-in-law’s parents had Alice for a mother?
When and where was that person born?
When and where did Alice die?
What research have you done yourself?
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31 Oct 2020 09:35 |
There's this but it's not clear how this related to Bessie:
Name: George Henry Sanders Event Type: Marriage Notice Event Date: 25 Sep 1896 Event Place: Exeter, Devon, England, United Kingdom Event Place (Original): Exeter, Devon, England Event Place Note: 113-9133 Gender: Male Spouse's Name: Alice Maud Mary Stiles Spouse's Gender: Female Newspaper: Western Times Page Number: 5 Publication Date: 25 Sep 1896 Affiliate Record Type: Marriage
Other information in the record of George Henry Sanders Name: George Henry Sanders Event Type: Marriage Notice Event Date: 25 Sep 1896 Event Place: Exeter, Devon, England, United Kingdom Event Place (Original): Exeter, Devon, England Event Place Note: 113-9133 Gender: Male Spouse's Name: Alice Maud Mary Stiles Spouse's Gender: Female Newspaper: Western Times Page Number: 5 Publication Date: 25 Sep 1896 Affiliate Record Type: Marriage
Digital Folder Number: 102117898 Image Number: 00228
Rose
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31 Oct 2020 07:20 |
If I'm correct, this is your father in law's mother:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: SANDERS, BESSIE HILLS GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in SOUTH MOLTON Volume 05B Page 382
MMN is Hills.
This looks to be her in 1911:
Name: Bessie Sanders Event Type: Census Event Date: 1911 Event Place: East Buckland, Devon, England, United Kingdom County: Devonshire Parish: East Buckland Sub-District: South Molton Sub-District Number: 2 District Number: 283 Enumeration District: 7 Registration District: South Molton Gender: Female Age: 4 Number in Family: 4 Birth Year (Estimated): 1907 Birthplace: Charles, Devonshire Relationship to Head of Household: Niece Schedule Type: 16 Page Number: 1 Registration Number: RG14
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace George Hill Head M 36 North Molton, Devonshire Ellen Hill Wife F 44 Charles, Devonshire Lucy Hill Sister F 17 South Molton, Devonshire Bessie Sanders Niece F 4 Charles, Devonshire
George appears to have married Ellen Crocker Sanders. It's unclear whether Bessie is from his side of the family or Ellens.
Rose
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