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If you don't already have it, you need to buy a copy of Bessie's birth cert.

Details copied here again in case you can't find it earlier in the thread:

SANDERS, BESSIE (mms HILLS )
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in SOUTH MOLTON Volume 05B Page 382


I'm pretty sure that although her mother's maiden name has been transcribed as Hills (and may actually say Hills on the cert - who knows), that's just one of the many varied ways the name was written/spelled/mistranscribed on various records already posted.

Stiles/Hyles/Stoyle/Stoyles on the other children's birth certs.

However, only the cert will prove it one way or the other.

Ellen Hill was Bessie Sanders Aunty, her mother was Alice Maud Styles, the hill family only fostered Bessie Sanders as she was only 2 years old when her father died.

No probs - replying on here means that everyone can see - and evaluate - your info

Apologies ErikaH, thought I had to reply to your reply.

The foolproof way to get info is to buy at least one copy cert

Thank you everyone for all your helpfull comments re Alice Maud Styles (Stiles), I am going to talk with Arthur Gill and see if he has any more info that may help as he is 90 years old he may remember something that could make a link.

Regards Eddie.

I may have to eat my words!

In view of the many varied spellings of Stiles in the birth records of her siblings, perhaps Bessie's mms of Hills isn't so far out after all - possibly combined with mistranscription


Alice & George's children Ellen and Edwin have mms Stiles (NB: not Styles) , as already posted.

Births of later children who are listed in 1911 census:

SANDERS, FREDERICK JOHN mms HYLES
GRO Reference: 1909 S Quarter in SOUTH MOLTON Volume 05B Page 378


SANDERS, EMILY WINIFRED mms STOYLES
GRO Reference: 1904 J Quarter in SOUTH MOLTON Volume 05B Page 394


SANDERS, ALICE MAUD mms STOYLE
GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in SOUTH MOLTON Volume 05B Page 409


.


Alice Sanders
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Alice Sanders
Age in 1911: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Portsmouth, Hampshire
Civil Parish: Charles
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street Address: Village, Charles, Near South Molton.
Marital status: Widowed
Registration District: South Molton
Registration District Number: 283
Sub-registration District: South Molton
ED, institution, or vessel: 06
Piece: 13298
Household Members:
Name Age
Alice Sanders 34
William Sanders 13
Ellen Sanders 10
Alice Sanders 9
Emily Sanders 7
Frederick Sanders 1


Athough 1901 and 1911 both say that Alice was born in Portsmouth - Portsmouth came under Portsea reg distrcit until 1900, so technically, she was born in Portsea.

However, the only Alice Maud Styles/Stiles/or other similar spelling born there was the one who maried Edward Cooke.

There was an Alice Gyles born in 1877, but her middle name was Maria, and she was unmarried in 1901.


As already said, you need Alice's 1896 marriage cert to see who her father was - if known.

George Hill maried Ellen Crocker Sanders, as Rose has said.

Ellen had a brother George H, born in Charles c1870: [ already posted by Erika, I've just noticed ]

George H Saunders
in the 1871 England Census
Name: George H Saunders
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: 1870
Relation: Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Charles Devon England
Civil Parish: Charles
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration District: South Molton
Sub-registration District: South Molton
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household Schedule Number: 11
Piece: 2181
Folio: 65
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
George Saunders 36
Maria Saunders 35
Maria Saunders 7
Ellen C Saunders 6
George H Saunders 1


George Saunders
in the 1881 England Census
Name: George Saunders
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: George Saunders
Mother: Maria Saunders
Gender: Male
Where born: Charles, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Charles
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street Address: Charles Bottom
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration District: South Molton
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Piece: 2242
Folio: 37
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
George Saunders 46
Maria Saunders 43
George Saunders 11
William Saunders 9
Frederick Saunders 6
Edwin Saunders 3

By 1891 George is a soldier:

George Sanders
in the 1891 England Census
Name: George Sanders
Gender: Male
Age: 21
Relationship: Private
Birth Year: 1870
Birth Place: South Molton, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Chelsea
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
Residence Place: Chelsea, London, England
Registration District: Chelsea
Sub registration district: Chelsea, South
ED, Institution or Vessel: 1st Battalion Coldstream Guards and Army Service Corps
Neighbors:
Piece: 66
Folio: 99


Which leads us back to George and Alice in Charles in 1901 - George born c1871 (per census) in Charles.


So if George was indeed Bessie's father, perhaps he had a relationship with a sister of George Hill (his brother-in-law).
Or some other woman named Hill or Hills (as per Bessie's birith record).

Perhaps he didn't marry Miss Hill/Hills, (he was already married to Alice) but was willing to accept parental responsibility, so Bessie was named Sanders and brought up by her aunt Ellen. Just a possibility!

Rose, Bessiewas from Ellen's side of the family.

As far as Alice is concerned, there seem to be two contenders, who may have been mistaken for each other somewhere in your family's minds. Did some other family member try to work out the family tree before, and maybe picked the wrong Alice?


To recap:

The Alice Maud Styles who was born in 1877 in Portsea, with father George who was a gunner in the Royal Marines, married Edward Cooke in 1895, was still with Edward in 1901 and 1911, and died as Cooke in 1953.

The Alice Maud M Stiles who married George Henry Sanders in South Molton 1896, was with him and their 3 children William, Edwin and Ellen in Charles, Devon in 1901.
George was born in Charles, as you said.
He was an agricultural labourer in 1901, and died in South Molton in 1909.


In 1911 she's still living in Charles, widowed, with children William, Ellen, Alice, Emily, and Frederick.
Alice died in Portsmouth in 1962.

1901 and 1911 censuses both say she was born in Portsmouth.

BUT -
she has no daughter named Bessie, and as Rose has said, Bessie's mother's name was Hills, not Stiles/Styles.


Re-posting the probable 1911 for Bessie, for ease of reference;

Bessie Sanders
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Bessie Sanders
Age in 1911: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1907
Relation to Head: Niece
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Charles, Devon
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street Address: Higher Cross Farm, East Buckland, South Molton
Registration District: South Molton
Registration District Number: 283
Sub-registration District: South Molton
ED, institution, or vessel: 07
Piece: 13299
Household Members:
Name Age
George Hill 36
Ellen Hill 44
Lucy Hill 17
Bessie Sanders 4

PM from Edward re Alice - referring to my post on 31 Oct at 14:41:

"She wasn't illegitimate, she disowned by her family for some reason to which my father in law has no answer to."


Edward -

In your opening post you said she was disowned "when she was older".
Do you know when? - childhood? adulthood?

Hello Edward,

What does Bessie's marriage certificate say? Like I said earlier, her mother's maiden name is listed as Hills, not Styles.

Rose

My father in law is Arthur Raymond Gill, his father was Mansell Gill and mother was Bessie Gill nee Sanders and maternal grandparents were George Henry Sanders and Alice Maud Sanders nee Styles. George was born in Charles, Bratton Fleming and Alice born at Portsea Island, that was all we knew about her.

I have had a PM saying that Bessie was his father in law’s grandmother, so how can she be Alice as well?

Rose, thank you for the information you have sent me, it looks like you have helped me immensely. My father in law has always said that none of his relatives knew anything about Alice apart from the fact she came from portsea island and her father was in the military.

Ellen Maud Gilll (mms Saunders) isn't relevant. Apart from anything else, her mms is Saunders, not Sanders.

Ellen Gill
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Ellen Gill
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Mother: Ellen Gill
Gender: Female
Where born: Hungerford, Berkshire, England
Civil Parish: Gillingham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address: 2 Church Road
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration District: Medway
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors:
Piece: 890
Folio: 56
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Ellen Gill 30 - wife of a seaman, Royal Navy.
Edwin Gill 2
Ellen Gill 1


Marriages Jun 1876 (>99%)
Gill Edwin George Pewsey 5a 301
Saunders Ellen Pewsey 5a 301

Re Alice Clarke, mms Stiles - in case relevant:

I think these are her parents:

Marriages Sep 1873 (>99%)
CLARKE Charles Medway 2a 662
Stiles Catherine Medway 2a 662

Sibling:

CLARKE, WILLIAM HENRY mms STILES
GRO Reference: 1873 D Quarter in MEDWAY Volume 02A Page 471


William H. Clarke
in the 1881 England Census
Name: William H. Clarke
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relationship to Head: Son
Mother: Louisa Wolff [ Not his mother - mistranscribed ]
Gender: Male
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Portsea
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street Address: "Anglesea Barracks"
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: None (Scholar)
Registration District: Portsea Island
Sub registration district: Portsea Town
ED, institution, or vessel: Anglesea Barracks Portsea
Neighbors:
Piece: 1148
Folio: 122
Page Number: 23
Charles Clarke 40 - Blandford, Dorset, Non Comd Officer In 1/10 Regt
Catherine Clarke 23 - St Helena, Africa >>>>
William H. Clarke 7
Caroline Clarke 2 - Alton
George Clarke 11 months - Colchester.
( and many other residents at the barracks )


CLARKE, GEORGE mms STILES
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in COLCHESTER Volume 04A Page 413

CLARKE, CAROLINE mms STILES
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in ALTON Volume 02C Page 167


>>>>>>> Alice Clarke/Stiles's aunt Ada was also born in Africa, per 1881 census posted earlier.

I wonder if this is the daughter Caroline in 1891 - although no middle name at birth:

Caroline Alice Clarke
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Caroline Alice Clarke
Gender: Female
Age: 11
Birth Year: 1880
Birth Place: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Portsea
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael and All Angels
Residence Place: Portsea, Hampshire, England
Registration District: Portsea Island
Sub registration district: Landport
ED, Institution or Vessel: Royal Seamen and Marines Orphan Schools and Female Orphan Home
Neighbors:
Piece: 877
Folio: 89
Alice Annie Clarke 11 - Alverstoke, Hants [but who is this ?? Maybe not related ]
Caroline Alice Clarke 11

They were "maintained, educated and trained on the funds of the Institution".

Also at that orphanage was an Ellen M Gill - don't know if relevant or not:

Ellen M Gill
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Ellen M Gill
Gender: Female
Age: 11
Birth Year: 1880
Birth Place: Ruda Hoanerford [ place name definitely ends in ". . .erford" ], Wiltshire, England

??
GILL, ELLEN MAUD mms SAUNDERS
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in HUNGERFORD Volume 02C Page 263




Charles Clarke
in the UK, Royal Hospital Chelsea Pensioner Admissions and Discharges, 1715-1925
View Original Image on Fold3.
Name: Charles Clarke
Pension Admission or Examination Age: 43
Birth Year: abt 1840
Birth Place: Blandford, Derset
Pension Admission or Examination Date: 10 Apr 1883
Regiment: Lincolnshire
Rank: Color Sergeant
Regimental Number: 947

Mansell Gill’s mother was Mary, nee Rowe.

Mansell’s son Arthur is the poster’s f-i-l, as far as I can deduce

13 public trees on Ancestry have Mansell Gill.
10 of them state he was married to Bessie Sanders.
The rest don't name any wife.

10 trees say Bessie's parents were George Henry Sanders and Alice Maud Mary Styles (some spell it Stiles), born either 1876 or 1877 - date taken from censuses.
.
One gives that Alice's DOB as 11 May 1876, but without proof.
That tree also says her father was George Styles, but without proof or any further info for him. Presumably they got his name from the marriage cert of Alice and George Henry.

Deaths Mar 1970 (>99%)
GILL Mansell 28No1898 Barnstaple 7a 762