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So the witness to the second marriage is a relative. (Trying a bit of lateral thinking)

1901
Name: Gertrude B Fell
Age: 78
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Relation to Head: Aunt
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: Kensington and West Derby Christchurch
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration District: West Derby
Sub-registration District: West Derby, Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Piece: 3491
Folio: 79
Page Number: 12
Household Schedule Number: 69
Household Members:
Name Age
Jessie E Snowden 50
Josephine Snowden 23
John H Snowden 22
Cathne E Snowden 18
Gertrude B Fell 78
Chas H Green 22

Name: Gertrude Bean Fell
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 22 Dec 1822
Baptism Place: Saint Mary,Nottingham,Nottingham,England
Father: William Fell
Mother: Ann


1841
Felkin Street, St Nicholas, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Ann Fell Female 55 1786 Nottinghamshire, England Schoolmistress
Mariane Fell Female 20 1821 Nottinghamshire, England
Gertrude Fell Female 15 1826 Nottinghamshire, England
George Barks Male 6 1835 Nottinghamshire, England

The two marriages for John Binning Donaldson and Eliza Fell, mentioned by Erika had me so intrigued that I sent for both marriage certificates and they arrived today. Now I'm totally confused.

The first marriage on 7 April 1847 at St. Silas' Church, Liverpool:

John Binning Donaldson a bachelor of full age, a bookkeeper, of 9 Danby Street, father James Donaldson, Gentleman
Eliza Fell, a spinster of full age, of 9 Danby Street, father William Fell, Mechanic
Witnesses - William Frederick Fell and John Ladner(??)

The second marriage on 4 December 1860 at the Register Office, Liverpool

John Binning Donaldson, 39 years, widower, a collector of 13 Vines Street, Liverpool, father James Donaldson (deceased), Gentleman
Eliza Fell, 33 years, spinster of Mount Pleasant, Liverpool, father William Fell (deceased), Bookmaker
Witnesses Douglas Edwards Milner and Gertrude Bean Fell

It's got me beat.

Thanks again. The info on Jessie Catherine, etc., I already have but thanks for that.
The two historical snippets are interesting, if it is him then what a strange man.

Interesting snippet (though not helpful to this query!) -

In 1851, John B is living at 14 Low Hill, per census.

So this is him, at the same address, elected as a Member at the first meeting of the Historic Society of Lancashire and Cheshire in 1851:

https://www.hslc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/4-2-First-meeting.pdf


In 1852 he donated to the society a copy of "A Guide to Grand Jurymen", printed in 1627
https://www.hslc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/4-14-Fourth-meeting.pdf

First name(s) Jessie C.
Last name Snowdon
Sex Female
Age 62y
Birth year 1848
Origin country England
Year 1910
Ship departure port Liverpool
Destination port Liverpool
Destination country United States
Arrival year 1910
Arrival date 1910-08-17
Arrival port Ellis Island, New York
Place New York
Travelling alone - or at least not with anyone else named Snowdon


1911 Census For England & Wales
3 Upper Baker Street Liverpool, West Derby, Lancashire, England
Jessie Catherine Snowden Head Married Female 63 1848 - Liverpool
J Mills Griffiths Son In Law Married Male 37 1874 Insurance Clerk Liverpool
Josephine Griffiths Daughter Married Female 34 1877 - Liverpool
Dot Stephens Visitor Single Female 32 1879 Actress London

10 children born in marriage - 2 have died

No-one seems able to find a death for him.

He was not 'deceased' on Jessie's marriage cert

Name: Jessie Catherine Donaldson
[Jessie Catherine Donoldson]
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: Full Age
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 20 Mar 1871
Marriage Place: Liverpool, St Jude, Lancashire, England
Father: John Binning Donoldson
Spouse: John Snowdon

Still, you know this, as you have access to Ancestry

One would have to think that his job as a Clerk did not allow him any access to the employer’s money. Clerk and Bookkeeper are very different.

Does the person on Ancestry have full documentary backup of her info? Ancestry tree compilers are notoriously unreliable

As for his age, that was only as he declared it. He clearly wasn’t an honest man, which means that factual, documented info is more likely to be accurate. He probably lied in view of the age gap between him and Eliza Fell

The baptism is evidence of his birth year - backed up by 1841 census.

Thanks again everyone. I've heard back from the owner of the tree of Ancestry and she seems pretty certain that the info you all give is correct.
I find a couple of things strange though. In most cases his age seems to be given as 1822/23. Then we have the embezzlement charge - in 1851 census he's working as a bookkeeper and from the clipping that alviegal gave it looks as that was where his embezzlement started. Then 1861 he's working as clerk, I wonder if they knew of his record. I also think it's strange that there's a marriage record for John and Eliza Fell in 1847 and 1860. I might send for the 1860 one to see what it says.

At the Liverpool sessions, last week, John Binning Donaldson (who has wife and four children) pleaded guilty to an indictment charging him with having embezzled the moneys of his employers. Four years ago the prisoner entered the service of the proprietors of the Liverpool Mercury as collector of accounts, at a salary of £75 which had been raised £5 a year making his salary at the time of the discovery of his defalcations £90 per annum. He appears to have commenced a system of fraud during the first year of his engagement, and which he continued to extend to a few months back, when his roguery was discovered. His defalcations are known to have exceeded £1,000. The recorder made a terrible example of the prisoner by sentencing him to five years penal servitude.

17 February 1855 - Staffordshire Advertiser - Stafford, Staffordshire, England


Some papers give his age as 32.

Just curious about the young John on the 1841 census who wasn't with his Mum and siblings the in 1851. I think this may be him.

Record Transcription:
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Old Town, East Kilpatrick, Milngavie, Stirlingshire, Scotland

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

David McMurtrie Head Married Male 52 1799 Innkeeper Milngavie, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Margaret McMurtrie Wife Married Female 51 1800 - Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
Andrew McMurtrie Son Unmarried Male 21 1830 Clerk In A Shawl Warehouse Milngavie, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Thomas Campbell Servant Unmarried Male 22 1829 Coachman Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
John Donaldson Servant Unmarried Male 15 1836 Shopboy Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
Marion McLean Servant Unmarried Female 22 1829 General Servant Wigtownshire, Scotland
Mary McFarlane Servant Unmarried Female 29 1822 Dairy Maid Dunbartonshire, Scotland
Helen Boyd Visitor Unmarried Female 17 1834 - Maybole, Ayrshire, Scotland
Richard Lammond Lodger Married Male 25 1826 Mason Glenluce, Wigtownshire, Scotland
David Brodie Lodger Married Male 26 1825 Mason Glenluce, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Joanna Shaw Lodger Unmarried Female 17 1834 Dressmaker Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Elizabeth Struther Lodger Unmarried Female 2 1849 - Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Finally found 1841 on Ancestry -using safc's post as a refererence point

Name: Margret Donalson
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Female
Where born: Ayrshire, Scotland
Civil Parish: Ayr
County: Ayrshire
Address: High Street
Parish Number: 578
Household Members:
Name Age
John B Donalson 25
Margret Donalson 25
John W Donalson 6 6 Mo
Mary B Donalson 5
Jane W Donalson 3
Janet B Donalson 8 Mo

Thanks rootgatherer, will try to check it out.

?????

Census Year County Place Civil Parish Ecclesiastical Parish Piece Enumeration District Folio Page Schedule House Number House or Street Name

1851 Ayrshire (AYR) Ayr Maybole Maybole 605 12 0 17 77 Main Street
Surname Forenames Relationship Marital Status Sex Age Occupation Birth County Birth Place Disability Notes
FERGUSON William Head M M 29 Hand Loom Weaver Cotton AYR Kirkmichael
FERGUSON Jane Wife M F 30 Dressmaker AYR Largs
DONALDSON Margaret Sislaw W F 36 Sempstress (Wife's Sister) AYR Lochwinnoch
DONALDSON Mary Niece - F 14 Scholar LKS Glasgow
DONALDSON Jane Niece - F 12 Scholar LKS Glasgow

There is a marriage in Glasgow for n 1833 for a John Donaldson and Margaret Wilson but of course they are fairly common names.

The 1841 posted by safc is almost certainly him - check the occupation

He didn’t actually have to have been married to Margaret.............

I simply put his name in and clicked on search. It came up in the results

Sorry Erika, I'm not finding it now. I was pretty sure I'd found him in 1841, hope I'm not having a senior moment!

Can you show the 1841 for him in Liverpool, please?

That's great safc, thank you. I can't find a death for Margaret though, so I wonder if he did do a runner.

Erika, how did you get to the criminal record on Ancestry, I'm not having any luck?

Thanks.

DONALDSON

JANET BELL

JOHN BINNING DONALDSON/MARGARET LANG WILSON FR858 (FR858)

F

16/11/1840

605/

40 304

Maybole

Thanks Erika. This gets more and more bizarre. The fact that he was in Liverpool in 1841 - do you think he did a runner after Janet was born? Couldn't find anything on SP.
There is a tree on Ancestry so I've messaged the owner to see if they can shed any more light.