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ArgyllGran
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4 Oct 2020 11:26 |
1861 and 1871, Robert is living in Irwell Lane. 1870 (marriage) , 1871 (census) and 1872 (Robert's probate) , Mary is at 40 Spencer Street.
It looks as if they never lived together.
And yet, both their names are on Frederick and Reginald's baptisms in 1863
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LondonBelle
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4 Oct 2020 11:04 |
There is Probate for Robert Cheshire Whiteway 8 May 1872, Death 3 Apr 1872. Probate is Granted to Mary Whiteway, Widow the Relict of 4O Spencer Street, Everton.
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LondonBelle
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4 Oct 2020 10:46 |
Mary in the 1861 Census?
Name: Mary Roberts Age: 21 Estimated Birth Year: 1840 Relation: Wife Gender: Female Where born: Runcorn, Cheshire, England Civil Parish: Everton Ecclesiastical parish: St George County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street Address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration District: West Derby Sub-registration District: Everton ED, institution, or vessel: 54 Neighbors: View others on page Household Schedule Number: 13 Piece: 2719 Folio: 49 Page Number: 5 Household Members: Name Age Mary Roberts 21 Married b Runcorn, Dressmaker Elizabeth Shaw 24 Visitor, b Runcorn, Dressnaker Mary Roberts 1, Dau b Runcorn
Address 13 Albion St
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LondonBelle
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4 Oct 2020 10:32 |
Looking at the Ancestry image, I think Mary, although calling herself Mary Roberts, states that she is ''Married, a Wife'.
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ArgyllGran
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4 Oct 2020 10:21 |
The father of the Mary who married Robert Whiteway and Charles Bryan was William Shaw, quarry proprietor.
The father of the Mary who married John Richards was Thomas Wills.
So we can discount the Richards marriage.
Trying to get my head round this - hope I've got the details right:
1861 - Robert is a widower 1863 - Frederick and Reginald are baptised witih parents Robert Whiteway and Mary Shaw - but their births are registered under Roberts. 1870 - Robert marries Mary Shaw, father William Shaw. 1871 - Mary is with children Fred, Reg, and Charles, calling herself a widow - all called Roberts. 1871 - Robert still (or again) says he's a widower, and is with the children of his first marriage. 1873 - Mary marries Charles Bryan, saying she's a widow. 1881 - Mary and Charles are together, with Fred, Reg and Charles, all called Bryan. Fred has middle name Whiteway. 1887 - possible death of Mary. 1890 - Charles Bryan remarries.
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LondonBelle
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4 Oct 2020 10:19 |
Or, I know it would be highly unlikely, she divorced Mr Roberts therefore reverting back to her maiden name and her spinster status.
Of course, it could be that she never married Mr Roberts in the first place and was therefore still legally Mary Shaw, Spinster!
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ErikaH
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4 Oct 2020 10:14 |
Unless she had previously married a Shaw her status was spinster. Her father’s surname was Shaw,
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LondonBelle
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4 Oct 2020 09:49 |
Marriage for easy ref
Name: Mary Shaw, Spinster Gender: Female Marriage Age: 28 Address 40 Spencer St, Event Type: Marriage Birth Year: abt 1842 Marriage Date: 7 Apr 1870 Marriage Place: Everton, St Peter, Lancashire, England Search Photos: Search for 'Everton, St Peter' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map: View this parish Father: William Shaw, Quarry Proprietor Spouse: Robert Cheshyre Whiteway, Merchant Father Philip Whiteway, Stone Merchant Address Mersey View, Runcorn Witnesses Thomas Hogarth & Elizabeth Hogarth Mary has signed the Register 'Mary Shaw'
Could the Clerk have asked Mary if she was married and if she said 'no' because she was a widow have assumed she was a Spinster?
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LondonBelle
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4 Oct 2020 09:37 |
In Shirley's post yesterday 0838
She has Mary Shaw of 40 Spencer St marrying Robert C Whiteway......40 Spencer St is the same as the 1871 Census for Mary!
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LondonBelle
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4 Oct 2020 09:23 |
Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons!
ROBERTS, FREDERICK SHAW MMN SHAW GRO Reference: 1861 S Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 312
ROBERTS, REGINALD MMN SHAW GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 323
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: ROBERTS, CHARLES MMN SHAW GRO Reference: 1866 M Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 409
AND
ROBERTS, MARY MMN SHAW GRO Reference: 1859 S Quarter in CONGLETON Volume 08A Page 249
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ArgyllGran
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3 Oct 2020 18:32 |
Good find, safc!
Ancestry's transcription of that 1871 census - I must say it does look more like Roberts on the faint image than Richards, though the other records you've posted seem to show it must be Richards. [EDIT: No - the father of the Mary who married John Richards is Thomas Wills - so not the same Mary.]:
Mary Roberts in the 1871 England Census Name: Mary Roberts Age: 33 Estimated Birth Year: 1838 Relation: Head Gender: Female Where born: Runcom Civil Parish: Everton Ecclesiastical parish: St Chrysostom County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration District: West Derby Sub-registration District: Toxteth Park ED, institution, or vessel: 77 Household Schedule Number: 15 Piece: 3822 Folio: 55 Page Number: 4 Household Members: Name Age Mary Roberts 33 Mary Roberts 11 - Coughton Fredk Roberts 9 - Liverpool Reginald Roberts 7 - Liverpool Charles Roberts 35 - Liverpool Ann Fred 25 - Ireland
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safc
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3 Oct 2020 18:07 |
Marriage: 9 Sep 1873 St Mary, Walton on the Hill, Lancashire, England Charles Bryan - full age, Watch Jeweller, Bachelor, Everton Mary Whiteway - full age, Widow, Everton Groom's Father: William Bryan, Watch Maker Bride's Father: William Shaw, Quarry Proprietor Witness: Richard Peddie Somner; Jane Georgina Hamilton Married by Licence by: J. D. Evans, Curate Register: Marriages 1871 - 1874, Page 165, Entry 329 Source: LDS Film 1647987
Marriage: 22 Jan 1874 St Bride, Toxteth, Lancashire, England John Richards - full, Lime Merchant, Widower, 44 Canning St. Mary Whiteway - full, Widow, 44 Canning St. Groom's Father: Richard Richards, Deceased Bride's Father: Thomas Wills, Deceased Witness: Thomas Bozer Wright; Emma Martha Wilson Married by Licence by: William M. Falloon, Incumbant Register: Marriages 1868 - 1874, Page 216, Entry 432 Source: LDS Film 1546434 and 1546425
There were 2 matches for this search!
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LondonBelle
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3 Oct 2020 18:03 |
There is a parish marriage register image as follows:
Name: Mary Whiteway [Mary Wills] Gender: Female Marriage Age: Full Age Widow Event Type: Marriage Marriage Date: 22 Jan 1874 Marriage Place: Liverpool, St Bride, Lancashire, England Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool, St Bride' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map: View this parish Father: Thomas Wills Deceased Spouse: John Richards Widower occ Lime(?)Merchant Father: Richard Richards Deceased Address for both: 44 Canning St Witnesses Thomas Roger Wright & Emma Martha Willow
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safc
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3 Oct 2020 17:04 |
Record Transcription: Cheshire Marriage licence bonds and allegations 1606-1905 What can I do with this record? View Image Add To Tree Report an Error First name(s) MARY Last name WHITEWAY Marriage year 1873 Marriage date 08 Sep 1873 Spouse's first name Charles Spouse's last name Bryan Bride's marital status Widowed County Cheshire Country England Record set Cheshire Marriage licence bonds and allegations 1606-1905 Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Subcategory Parish Marriages Collections from England, Great Britain
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safc
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3 Oct 2020 17:02 |
Record Transcription: Cheshire Marriage licence bonds and allegations 1606-1905 What can I do with this record? View Image Add To Tree Report an Error First name(s) MARY Last name WHITEWAY Marriage year 1874 Marriage date 21 Jan 1874 Spouse's first name John Spouse's last name Richards Bride's marital status Widowed County Cheshire Country England Record set Cheshire Marriage licence bonds and allegations 1606-1905 Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Subcategory Parish Marriages Collections from England, Great Britain
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safc
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3 Oct 2020 16:42 |
????
cant read the image
Record Transcription: 1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Spencer Street, Everton, West Derby, Lancashire, England
Household Members Members that resided in the household at the time of the census. First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Mary Richards Wife - Female 33 1838 - Cheshire, England Mary Richards Daughter - Female 11 1860 - Cheshire, England Frederick Richards Son - Male 9 1862 - Lancashire, England Reginald Richards - - Male 7 1864 - Lancashire, England ??? Richards - - Male 5 1866 - Lancashire, England Ann Ford Servant - Female 25 1846 - Ireland
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2020 14:32 |
She was baptised in 1839
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ArgyllGran
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3 Oct 2020 14:31 |
Can't see Mary (nee Shaw) in 1871 - nor Reginald nor Frederick. She seems to have died (or moved on in some way) by 1890, as Charles remarried then:
Marriages Mar 1890 (>99%) Bryan Charles W. Derby 8b 456 Purdue Ellen Amelia W. Derby 8b 456
Charles Bryan in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995 Name: Charles Bryan Death Date: 24 Oct 1892 Death Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England Probate Date: 12 Dec 1893 Probate Registry: Liverpool, England
BRYAN, Charles, of Ebenezer Road, Fairfield, Liverpool,>>>>> watch jeweller<<<<<, died 24 Oct 1892. . . . . . . Administration to Ellen Amelia Bryan, widow.
Charles Bryan in the 1891 England Census Name: Charles Bryan Gender: Male Age: 41 Relationship: Head Birth Year: 1850 Spouse: Ellen A Bryan Child: Amelia Bryan Birth Place: Lanc, Liverpool Civil Parish: West Derby Ecclesiastical parish: Fairfield St John the Divine Residence Place: West Derby, Lancashire, England Registration District: West Derby Sub registration district: West Derby (Municipal) ED, Institution or Vessel: 25a Neighbors: Piece: 2992 Folio: 129 Household Members: Name Age Charles Bryan 41 Ellen A Bryan 27 Amelia Bryan 8/12 Frederick S Whiteway 29
Possibly Mary's death - though doesn't quite fit with 1881 census:
Deaths Dec 1887 (>99%) Bryan Mary 47 W. Derby 8b 414
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ArgyllGran
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3 Oct 2020 13:31 |
Another sibling
WHITEWAY, CLARA mms JOHNSON GRO Reference: 1852 S Quarter in RUNCORN Volume 08A Page 194
Clara Whiteway in the England & Wales, Christening Index, 1530-1980 Name: Clara Whiteway Gender: Female Birth Place: Runcorn, England Christening Date: 29 Jul 1852 Christening Place: Runcorn, Cheshire, England Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map: View this parish Father: Robert Cheshyre Whiteway Mother: Anne Whiteway
Death:
WHITEWAY, CLARA 7 GRO Reference: 1860 M Quarter in RUNCORN Volume 08A Page 160
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2020 13:29 |
Name: Clara Whiteway Gender: Female Christening Date: 29 Jul 1852 Christening Place: Runcorn, Cheshire, England Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map: View this parish Father: Robert Cheshyre Whiteway Mother: Ann Whiteway
Name: Clara Whiteway Registration Year: 1860 Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar Registration District: Runcorn Inferred County: Cheshire Volume: 8a Page: 160
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