Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
|
Mumbles
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 21:06 |
I think that maybe you are right, it will be just another one that got away: It is such a usual name: I want to thank you all for searching for me and for all the trouble that you took on my behalf: I will try to follow up on the death of that Mary Finch though as that looks good to me: Once again many thanks indeed:
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 20:47 |
In that case, the Thomas Finch in the 1841, 1851 and 1961 censuses in Upper Hardres can't be the right one.
Therefore, I take it that the baptism is the only record you have of your Thomas.
Perhaps he died in childhood (or at least before 1841) and the burial record has not survived.
|
|
Mumbles
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 19:18 |
Yes the half siblings are Gabriels & Susannah's children they are Gabriel B1816 Susanna B 1818 and George Bryney Finch B 1823: Susannah was previously married to a James Vallins in 1811 he died before 1815 when she married again it shows her as being Follings not Vallins when she married Gabriel, but that is due to her being illiterate and some one else writing what they thought she said :She had one child by James Vallins he was Henry, and lucky for me she kept his surname when she married again: Henry is my 2 x Grt grandfather and James and Susannah are my 3 x Grt Grandparents: If you look on the 1841 census you will see that living next door to Gabriel and Susannah is Henry Vallins: He also has one of his half siblings living with him: I have seen both him and his seven half siblings with there birth dates written in the family bible: As far as the 1841 census goes for Thomas I am not at all sure that the one fond is correct it just happens to be the same as I found: Other people who have Thomas on their tree also have only what I have just a birth, none of them have him as dying or any other details: The possible burial for the mother Mary does how ever look good as she would have died before 1815: The other finch's that you have found are correct Mary, Catherine and William were all born in Woolwich in 1802, 04 and 05 Then came Thomas and James Born in 1807 and 1810:
|
|
LondonBelle
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 18:57 |
I was just wondering with many people being illiterate at that time and unable to tell whether things were spelt correctly together with a local accent that 'Tye' could have been written as 'Teay' by the Clerk...just a thought.
|
|
Mumbles
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 18:38 |
Yes the half siblings are Gabriel and Susannah's children and Susannah's previous marriage was to a James Vallins so her name was Vallins when she married Gabriel not Follings, but being illiterate this is where mistakes come from: The three half siblings are Gabriel B1816 Susanna B1818 and George Bryney Finch B1823 all went to USA and died in Grundy Illinois: As to the three other children Mary, Catherine and William that is correct they were born in Woolwich then Thomas and his brother James born in 1810 were born in Chatham: I have seen the baptisms on line at "City Ark" web site: I am not sure that the 1841 census is the correct one I said that was the one that I also found and might be correct: The query on if Mary's name could be Tye, I don't know but when I checked the marriage on "City Ark" the spelling looked like Teay but looking at the Banns it looked like Tiay:
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 18:01 |
Are Gabriel and Susannah's children listed in 1841 the half-siblings you mentioned as having gone to the USA?
If not, who are the half-siblings? Perhaps we can work back to Thomas that way.
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 17:47 |
If that's the right Gabriel in 1841 above, these will be the baptisms of three of the four children mentioned by the Ancestry member.
I don't see a fourth in Woolwich, so MAYBE Thomas is the fourth ??? Chatham's quite a distance from Woolwich, but both are dockyard areas:
Catharine Finch in the London, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 Name: Catharine Finch Gender: Female Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 13 Jan 1804 Baptism Place: St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich, Greenwich, Kent, England Father: Gabriel Finch Mother: Mary Finch Register Type: Parish Register
William Finch in the London, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 Name: William Finch Gender: Male Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 23 Jun 1805 Baptism Place: St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich, Greenwich, Kent, England Father: Gabriel Finch Mother: Mary Finch Register Type: Parish Register
Mary Finch in the London, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 Name: Mary Finch Gender: Female Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 19 Dec 1802 Baptism Place: St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich, Greenwich, Kent, England Father: Gabriel Finch Mother: Mary Finch Register Type: Parish Register
|
|
LondonBelle
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 17:40 |
Could Mary's surname be 'Tye' rather than 'Teay'?
First name(s) Mary Last name Tye Baptism year 1783 Baptism date 08 Jun 1783 Place Chatham, St Mary Father's first name(s) William Mother's first name(s) Susanna County Kent Country England Archive Medway Archives
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 17:40 |
This looks like the Gabriel who died in 1855 (death posted by ErikaH) :
Gabriel Fench in the 1841 England Census Name: Gabriel Fench [Gabrial Finch] [Gabriel Finch] Age: 70 Estimated birth year: abt 1771 [1770] Gender: Male Where born: Kent, England [SUNDRIDGE, near Sevenoaks, Kent, England] Civil Parish: Halstead <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Hundred: Codsheath County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: Occupation: View image Registration district: Sevenoaks Sub-registration district: Shoreham Neighbors: Piece: 483 Book: 4 Folio: 4 Page Number: 3 Household Members: Name Age Gabriel Fench 70 Susannah Fench 50 George Fench 15 John Fench 15 Frederick Fench 13 Mary Fench 10
An Ancestry member has added this comment:
Almost certainly the Gabriel Finch who left the Royal Artillery at WOOLWICH 30 Sep 1814 aged 44 after 20 years service (National Archives, 2 documents). Wife Mary mother of 3 children bap WOOLWICH 1802/5 dead by then as he m. Susanna Follings at Lee, Kent 16 Jul 1815 (IGI) and began 2nd family.
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 17:32 |
Here's the Upper Hardres man in 1851:
Thomas Finch in the 1851 England Census Name: Thomas Finch Age: 50 Estimated birth year: abt 1801 Relation: Lodger Gender: Male Where born: Upper Hardres, Kent, England Civil Parish: Upper Hardres Ecclesiastical parish: Canterbury Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps: View related Ecclesiastical Parish County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Bridge Sub-registration district: Chartham ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: Household schedule number: 2 Piece: 1623 Folio: 82 Page Number: 1 Household Members: Name Age Mary Whitnall 49 Thomas Finch 50 - carpenter
|
|
LondonBelle
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 17:30 |
Possible burial for Mary?
First name(s) Mary Last name Finch Birth year 1781 Burial year 1813 Age at death 32 Burial date 04 Oct 1813 Place Gillingham, St Mary Magdalene Residence Brompton County Kent Country England Archive Medway Archives
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 17:29 |
Please can you clarify, Mumbles?
How did you work back to Thomas?
Is the 1841 census posted by ErikaH the one you think is correct?
If so, how do you know that he's the same Thomas as the one born in Chatham (about 30miles away) ?
If the man in 1861 is the one in1841, then he was born in Upper Hardres, not Chatham.
|
|
Mumbles
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 17:20 |
Yes LondonBelle I do have his Army pension records: I am OK with the Father Gabriel: Thank you Maybe the 1861 census is the same person : It does say birth about 1804, but he is a Carpenter:
|
|
malyon
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 17:17 |
Thomas Finch England and Wales Census, 1841 Name: Thomas Finch Event Type: Census Event Date: 1841 Event Place: Deptford St Paul, Kent, England, United Kingdom Event Place (Original): St Paul Deptford, Kent, England County: Kent Parish: St Paul Deptford Registration District: Greenwich Residence Note: New King Street Gender: Male Age: 30 Age (Original): 30 Birth Year (Estimated): 1807-1811 Birthplace: Kent Page Number: 24 Registration Number: HO107 Piece/Folio: 488/16 Affiliate Record Type: Institution Affiliate Image Identifier: GBC/1841/0488/0465&parentid=GBC/1841/0014231164 Household Role Sex Age Birthplace Mathew* Finch Male 70 Kent Mathew Sanders Finch Male 35 Kent Thomas Finch Male 30 Kent Ann Rolt Female 60 Kent Mary Ann Lepard Female 38 Kent Eliza Coltar Female 21 Kent Elizebth Stapleton Female 25 Kent
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 17:14 |
Slightly different age again, but a possible death of the man in 1841 and 1861 censuses:
Deaths Mar 1871 (>99%) Finch Thomas 69 Bridge 2a 451
Upper Hardres was in Bridge reg district
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 17:04 |
?? If the 1841 census posted by ErikaH is the one you think is correct, Mumbles, this looks like him in 1861:
Thomas Finch in the 1861 England Census Name: Thomas Finch Age: 57 Estimated birth year: 1804 Relation: Boarder Gender: Male Where born: Upper Hardres, Kent, England Civil Parish: Upper Hardres County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Bridge Sub-registration district: Chartham ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: Household schedule number: 67 Piece: 517 Folio: 71 Page Number: 11 Household Members: Name Age Ann Fenwick 59 William Fenwick 39 John Hawkes 21 George Southon 16 Henry Deal 24 William Culvery 40 Thomas Finch 57 - carpenter, single
But Chartham (near Canterbury) is not Chatham. And Gillingham isn't near Chartham, though only a couple of miles from Chatham.
|
|
LondonBelle
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 17:02 |
I know you are looking for info on Thomas and his Mother, Mary but have you got the actual date of Gabriel's death ie 1 May 1855 aged 84? ....this is form his Army Pension Record.
|
|
Mumbles
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 16:28 |
Yes I have the death of Gabriel Finch ErikaH that is Thomas father Thank you for that: I have all the details on his father, I am having trouble with the Mother and Thomas his self
|
|
ErikaH
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 16:18 |
First name(s) Gabriel Last name Finch Birth year 1771 Burial year 1855 Age at death 84 Burial date 06 May 1855 Place Halstead, St Margaret Residence Halstead Country England Archive Kent History & Library Centre Archive reference P166/1/E/1 Register type Burials Year range 1813-1929
|
|
ErikaH
|
Report
|
19 Aug 2020 16:10 |
???
Name: Thomas Finch........................Carpenter Age: 35 Estimated birth year: abt 1806 Gender: Male Where born: Kent, England Civil Parish: Upper Hardres Hundred: Bridge and Petham County/Island: Kent Country: England Registration district: Bridge Sub-registration district: Chartham Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 467 Book: 5 Folio: 5 Page Number: 4 Household Members: Name Age Stephen Whitnall 65 Mary Whitnall 70 William Whitnall 45 Jane Whitnall 60 Thomas Finch 35
|