Find Ancestors

Mother of David Clives was Margaret .
She died in Stockport Cheshire in 1852 age 52 burried 2/9/1852 in lancashire.

Maybe the C Bennett born Birkenhead Cheshire @ 1852/3 who was with Robert Bennett was actually Caroline Alice Clives 1853-1875 no sign of her in 1871 census.

There would probably be info on death record of David and Caroline 's son Benjamin Clives born 1850 died 1856,i.e who registered his death and who buried him in Chorlton in Medlock Lancashire.

I have tried to connect Robert Bennett and Henry Bennett together but as yet nothing.


Maryb.

First name(s) David
Last name Clives
Occupier's first name(s) David
Occupier's last name Clives
Owner's first name(s) Thomas
Owner's last name Smithson
Date Jun 1848
Year 1848
House number 120
Address Welcomb St
Location Hulme Township



First name(s) Dav
Last name Clives
Occupier's first name(s) Dav
Occupier's last name Clives
Owner's last name Eltoft*********************************************
Date 1850
Year 1850
House number 16
Address Ashton St

Address given for both David and Caroline when they married in 1849 was Mackworth Street

Coming back to this again - seems a shame for Mary's sterling efforts not to be fully exploited

Robert Bennett's father was Matthias - a Millwright, who died in 1835 - leaving a widow, Sarah.

Name: Robert Bennett
Baptism Date: 5 Sep 1819
Parish: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Father: Mathias Bennett
Mother: Sarah Bennett

First name(s) Matthias
Last name Bennett
Sex Male
Marital status -
Marriage year 1799
Marriage date 05 Feb 1799
Marriage place Dronfield, Dronfield, Derbyshire, England
Denomination Anglican
Place Dronfield
County Derbyshire
Spouse's first name(s) Sarah
Spouse's last name Pearson

Were Matthias and Caroline's father Henry (both Millwrights) brothers? Trades tended to 'run' in families.

That would have made Robert and Caroline first cousins - and would explain, perhaps, why Robert and his wife took in Henry jnr


Name: Robert Bennett
Marriage Date: 5 May 1839
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's name: Matthias Bennett
Spouse's name: Edith Henshaw
Spouse's Father's Name: Thomas Henshaw

Yes Thank you I'd like it to match up but don't think it is doing that address you have just found they were in it in 1848 and 1853 ?? yet you have a different person living there , As I said I was willing to let it go as they aren't that close but as their was more info I thought I'd check
A lot of ifs and buts that don't add up

Thank you for your help

Please take time to evaluate the info - it isn't something you can do in five minutes ;-) ;-)

Look at every bit of info provided and endeavour to put it in context - not trying to teach you to suck eggs, but drawing up a chart would probably help you to get it all clear

1851 33,Eltoft Street Deansgate Manchester page 49 of 64
James Philips 34 born Manchester Bricklayer
Sarah 36 born Liverpool

I can't find the marriage and James could have died before 1861



Maryb

James and Sarah Philips

Sorry just checked thought we had finished Don't know what to make of this last bit the theory seems Ok but it's proving it I suppose it finding out who live at 33 Eltoft ? street in 1851 The Maker upper fits with Henry's marriage certificate

So is you can find out who lived at this address it could possibly help

Thank you

First name(s) CAROLINE
Last name CLIVES
Age 38
Birth year 1822
Death year 1860
Death month Aug
Death day 24
Burial year -
Parish Union
Place -
County Lancashire
Country England
Union Chorlton
Workhouse Chorlton Union
Locality of record Manchester Withington Workhouse

?????

First name(s) David
Last name Clives
Occupier's first name(s) David
Occupier's last name Clives
Owner's first name(s) Wm
Owner's last name Heap
Date 1851
Year 1851
House number 35
Address Jackson Street
Location Chorlton upon Medlock Township
Title of record Poor Rate Assessments
Archive reference M 10/9/5/31
Record set Manchester Rate Books 1706-1900
Category Census, land & surveys
Subcategory Rate Books

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1849
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BENNETT Caroline CLIVES David 1849 Hulme, Holy Trinity Archives+, Manchester Central Library 64/1/107
BENNETT Caroline OLIVES David 1849 Hulme, Holy Trinity Archives+, Manchester Central Library 64/1/107
CLIVES David BENNETT Caroline 1849 Hulme, Holy Trinity Archives+, Manchester Central Library 64/1/107
OLIVES David BENNETT Caroline 1849 Hulme, Holy Trinity Archives+, Manchester Central Library 64/1/107

Just to get it clear in my head , Mary -

you're saying that Henry 1848 was Caroline 1822's illegitimate son, before she married David Clives, and she'd invented the child's father's name Henry?
She and David then had daughter Caroline 1853.

So if, for some reason, Robert and Edith Bennett "adopted" the children, that would fit with the 1861 census, with adopted son Henry and adopted daughter C.


Caroline and David also had a son Benjamin:

CLIVES, BENJAMIN mms BENNETT
GRO Reference: 1850 D Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 20 Page 177


Benjamin Clives
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915
Name: Benjamin Clives
Age: 0
Birth Date: 28 Oct 1850
Baptism Date: 20 Nov 1850
Baptism Place: Manchester, St Simon and St Jude, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Manchester, St Simon and St Jude
Father: David Clives
Mother: Caroline Clives

He died:

CLIVES, BENJAMIN 5
GRO Reference: 1856 S Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 333



However, I don't see Henry's birth, nor Caroline 1853's. I see her baptism, not her birth.

Young Caroline's death ??

Caroline Clive
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Caroline Clive
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Registration Year: 1875
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 22
Registration district: Chorlton
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 4600


I suppose it's just possible that the Bennett/Clews birth for Henry is the correct one, with the names transposed by mistake, and Clives mis-spelled as Clews ??

6/8/1848 St Matthew Lancs
Henry Bennett baptised by Caroline and Henry Bennett bricklayer of 33 Eltoft Street.

1.1.1849 marriage of Caroline Bennett spinster full age dad Henry a millwright to
DAVID Clives born 20/9/1829.His parents Benjamin Clives Army Sargeant and Margaret nee lee who also had a son Thomas Frederick Clives.

Caroline Bennett 1822 baptised by Henry and Alice Bennett.
This marriage could be them
Henry Bennett married Alice Clowes 15/2/1820 in Eccles lancashire
If Alice had caroline before marriage then Caroline would be Clowes/Clewes like on the birth register for Henry in 1848.

David Clives and Caroline baptised Caroline Alice Clives 25/12/1853 address 33,ELTOFT street and David was down as a Maker Up the same as on Henry's marriage to Mary E Senior

Your Henry had a daughter Caroline and she also had daughter Caroline.

I can't find Caroline and David in 1851 census as there were a lot in Ardwick damage by flood water I think,but there was one where you could only read David.

I hope you can follow this,but it certainly looks to me that it is your Henry.

Maryb.

Given that their is another child adopted I think your right in what you say his name possibly wasn't Bennett so I think the trail is at an end He wasn't a close ancestor father in law of gr aunt so it's no detriment to my tree

Thank you again for your help

Sorry I've just come on and seen your replies Thank you
Yes I always try and verify what I see on other trees but some times it's a stating point
Your right I'm not sure if I'm following the right Henry, I usually check occupations when following some one also the rest of the family they are with
I didn't notice their was a girl adopted

I'll go through all you have sent and see if I can sort some thing out

Thank you

No Henry with Robert & family in 1851.

There are no other Bennett/Clews births in Hulme between 1837 and 1856

If Henry had been raised by Robert & his wife, one would have expected him to name Robert as his father when he married

According to the marriage cert, David was a 'Maker up', and not deceased

No Bennett witnesses.

The Henry you've found in 1861 was a Braid Reeler

The one who married in 1871 was a Velvet Finisher.

Not sure how closely-linked the occupations might be, other than they're both obviously in the same industry

I doubt very much if Bennett was the adopted son Henry's birth name.


On the 1861 census, as well as Henry the adopted son, there's also an adopted daughter, aged 7, born Birkenhead, only the initial C for her name.

There's no birth of any Bennett girl with name beginning with C in Wirral RD 1854+/-2.

(Well, there's a Clara in 1855, mms Taylor, and a Charlotte in 1852, mms Rimmer, but they're with their parents in later censuses.)


As for Henry's supposed father David - it was quite common for people who didn't know who their fathers were to invent a father for the sake of their marriage cert.

You refer to a birth registration on the GRO site. How certain are you that it is for the Henry who married in 1870?

There was no formal adoption in those times, as I’m sure you are aware

How sure are you that the one you’ve found in 1861 is the right man?

Don't ever use info found on someone's tree!
At least not until you've checked everything yourself and found documentary proof.