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1939 Register
Catherine Jones (2nd marriage) born 28 July 1886

Thank you for this
The Church of the Holy Family Chorlton6 Oct 1882
James Kelly aged 25 Back Labourer father James Kelly Labourer
Catherine Foxx 22 Spin father John Fox Labourer
wit Margaret Dean & John Daley

Chorlton Registry office
Catherine Kelly 20 Spin father James Joseph Kelly Dec Labourer in iron works
Joseph Turner 20 labourer in iron works father Thomas Turner Farm Labourer
wit James Cannon &Caroline Charlesworth

I've not got the birth for Catherine and her siblings Actually when I was doing this years ago I didn't know about GRO it's only this last couple of years I've realised what you can do with it

Sylann has already said she has the cert, but hasn’t given us ALL the info it contains.

????

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1907
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
TURNER Joseph KELLY Catherine 1907 Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registrar Attended Archives+, Manchester Central Library CHO_RM/188/43

do you have the marriage cert for catherine
for
fathers name
his occupation
and address

True - could well be a different family.

James in 1891 is a Master M (looks like Fairy, but clearly can't be.)
James in 1901 is a general labourer - doesn't seem likely to be the same person. His wife is living on her own means in 1901.

James and Catherine hadn’t aged much between 1891 and 1901!

Ancestry thinks this is her in 1891:

Catherine Kelly
in the 1891 England CensusName: Catherine Kelly
Gender: Female
Age: 7
Relationship: Daughter
Birth Year: 1884
Father: James Kelly
Mother: Catherine Kelly
Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Chorlton on Medlock
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Residence Place: Manchester, Chorlton on Medlock, Lancashire, England
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub registration district: Chorlton upon Medlock
ED, Institution or Vessel: 36
Neighbors:
Piece: 3186
Folio: 143
Household Members:
Name Age
James Kelly 35
Catherine Kelly 32
John Kelly 9
Catherine Kelly 7
Annie Kelly 2
William Goffe 39
Edward Goffe 11
Mary H Goffe 15

And some of the family in 1901:

James Kelly
in the 1901 England Census
Name: James Kelly
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Catherine Kelly
Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: South Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Condition as to marriage:
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Chorlton upon Medlock
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Neighbors:
Piece: 3693
Folio: 79
Page Number: 11
Household schedule number: 66
Household Members:
Name Age
James Kelly 37
Catherine Kelly 36
John Kelly 19
Mary Kelly 2


I'm struggling to find births for John, Catherine, Annie, and Mary, all with the same mms.

IF - IF - Fox is correct, there's this:

KELLY, MARY mms FOX
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 256

but there were several Mary Kellys born in Manchester in 1899+/-1.
There are also two in Chorlton.

On 1911 census Catherine’s age is 23- born later than 1886 if it’s accurate

Where is she in 1891 and 1901?

No, nor do I. that’s why I asked the question ;-)

Only one Kelly/Fox female birth in the period 1884-1888. Annie in Sheffield.

The OP may need to re-think her grandmother’s parentage

James Kelly 1857 actually born in Chorlton:

As already posted:
KELLY, JAMES mms MAHON
GRO Reference: 1857 D Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 470

So far, I don't see the birth of a Catherine Kelly with mms Fox.

That looks to make sense.

The birth I posted for James 1857 has MMN Mahon, so if you get a copy of the 1855 marriage cert, you’ll learn James’s father’s name and occupation - providing James knew his father.

Don’t get hung upon the idea of a birth in Ireland - be flexible in your thinking

BTW - have you found Catherine’s birth on the GRO index? You NEED to verify her mother’s maiden name to verify that the Kelly/Fox marriage is actually relevant

Right this is what I have

Catherine Kelly b 1886-1966 Manchester Married Joseph Turner
James Kelly b 1857 Manchester Married Catherine Fox in 1882
James Kelly b 1819 Ireland - Bridget Mahon

So, please tell us when Catherine was born - and where.

Have you done anything about trying to find out Catherine’s mother’s name?

The other thread referred to by Sylann:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1354730

That's what I have done
My gran Catherine Kelly Have her Marriage father down as James Joseph? not sure if this is a slip up as she married a Joseph
My Gr Grandfather James Joseph according to my Grans Marriage certificate BUT on his marriage certificate his name is down as James and his fathers name is James

This is the James Is the one I'm trying to get info on?

Going off James Joseph That I followed his mother was Hogan but she is down on GRO as just having James Joseph
But the 1861 census above has also Thomas So going off both boys having the same mother I've got their mother as Bridget Mahon as GRO shows above

Thats as far as I've been able to go but I've found out that James and Bridget Mohan married 1855 so to get James fathers name I'll have to get the marriage certificate

So I am going off what I find out but trying to verify what I have and this is why I come on here Because I value the help I get and it does help me to verify or makes me realise I've done some thing wrong

So thank you for the help I've had today

If this man is your gr gr grandfather, one of his children MUST be your gr grandparent.

What was that person’s name? Straightforward question. Which person named Kelly was your gr grandparent?

Use facts to work back - what you have been told may not necessarily be accurate

Not sure what you mean

This James Kelly is My Gr Gr Granddad But I never new anything about him Tales I heard growing up have turned out to be wrong I always thought my gran was from Ireland ??-- born Manchester
I was told by another relative that my Gr Grand dad came over here when he was about 5 ?? as far as I've made out with censuses he was born in Manchester
So this one 1818 born Ireland

So I've tried but if you can recommend some thing else to do I'm all ears

Thank you

If this is a direct line, you must know which of his children is your ancestor. So, what was his/her name and where/when was he/she born?

Use the various free resources to get factual info about your known family line

Not sure which 1851 census Think it might be the Visitor one ??
I've no idea who his parents were It's only today when I found the marriage in 1855 I thought they were married in Ireland ?

At least they are single so it matches with the marriage

Thank you

The census I was looking at was all Saints the names on it were Harriet Mulloy , John Digman, Bridget Oak, Catherine Oak, Caroline Mulloy, James Bard, John Frances, I didn't see another one.

The marriage I'm thinking about is James Kelly and Bridget Mahon,
When I was looking into this a few year back I was concentrating on my Gr Grandfather and wondering if his name was James or James Joseph I went for James Joseph But Looking at the GRO for James and his brother Thomas I've realised that Bridget Mahon had both son where the one I followed only had James Joseph. Like you have above

Also Bridget Mahon was married before according to Lancashire BMD the other name was Cowen so I'm taking it that Mahon was her MN and Cowen was her 1st marriage?