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Hi ArgylGran , thank you for all your help

Sarah A. Whitehall
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Sarah A. Whitehall
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Father: Pharoah Whitehall
Mother: Catherine Whitehall
Gender: Female
Where born: Gads Green, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Hunslet
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: 19 Roumilia St
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Hunslet
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors:
Piece: 4487
Folio: 92
Page Number: 45
Household Members:
Name Age
Pharoah Whitehall 39
Catherine Whitehall 37
William Whitehall 15
Elijah Whitehall 13
Priscilla Whitehall 11
Sarah A. Whitehall 8
Hannah Whitehall 7
Enoch Whitehall 4
Abraham Whitehall 2
Rebecca Whitehall


Sarah Ann Whitehall
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Sarah Ann Whitehall
Gender: Female
Age: 19
Relationship: Servant
Birth Year: 1872
Birth Place: Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Armley
Ecclesiastical parish: Upper Armley Christchurch
Residence Place: Armley, Yorkshire, England
Registration district: Bramley
Sub registration district: Wortley
ED, Institution or Vessel: 42
Neighbors:
Piece: 3682
Folio: 39
Household Members:
Name Age
James Ellis 44
Sarah J Ellis 45
Harry Ellis 22
Clara E Ellis 18
Oliver Ellis 16
Marian Ellis 14
Florence Ellis 12
Joseph H Ellis 8
Sarah Ann Whitehall 19

Harold Brown
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Harold Brown
Age in 1911: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1903
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Hemsworth, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: South Kirkby
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street address: 5 Wesley Street Moorthorpe Road South Elmsall S O
Occupation: School
Registration district: Hemsworth
Registration District Number: 506
Sub-registration district: Hemsworth Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Piece: 27526
Household Members:
Name Age
John Brown 38
Sarah Ann Brown 40
John Robert Brown 16
William Brown 14
Hannah Brown 12
Harold Brown 8
Miriam Brown 6
Wilfred Brown 5
Edmund Brown 2



BROWN, HAROLD mms WHITEHALL
GRO Reference: 1902 D Quarter in HEMSWORTH Volume 09C Page 189



John Brown
in the West Yorkshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935
Name: John Brown
Marriage Age: 20
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1872
Marriage Date: 26 Dec 1892
Marriage Place: Hemsworth, St Helen, Yorkshire, England
Parish as it Appears: Hemsworth, St Helen
Father: Joseph Brown
Spouse: Sarah Ann Whitehall [ Father: Pharaoh Whitehall ]


Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)
Brown John Hemsworth 9c 253
Whitehall Sarah Ann Hemsworth 9c 253

Mary A Worthington
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Mary A Worthington
Gender: Female
Age: 15
Relationship: Daughter
Birth Year: 1876
Father: James Worthington
Mother: Alice Worthington
Birth Place: Morley, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Gildersome
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Residence Place: Gildersome, Gildersome, Yorkshire, England
Registration district: Bramley
Sub registration district: Gildersome
ED, Institution or Vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Piece: 3675
Folio: 37
Household Members:
Name Age
James Worthington 33
Alice Worthington 33
Mary A Worthington 15
Myrah Worthington 8
Miranda Worthington 7



Mary Ann Worthington
in the West Yorkshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935
Name: Mary Ann Worthington
Marriage Age: 19
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1876
Marriage Date: 17 Aug 1895
Marriage Place: Batley, All Saints, Yorkshire, England
Father: James Worthington
Spouse: James Atkinson Toulman



James Atkinson Toulman
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: James Atkinson Toulman
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Registration Year: 1897
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 25
Registration district: Dewsbury
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 9b
Page: 398



Mary Ann Toulman
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Mary Ann Toulman
Registration Year: 1898
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Holbeck
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 9b
Page: 584
Records on Page:
Name
William Middleton
Mary Ann Toulman

MIDDLETON, ANNIE mms WORTHINGTON
GRO Reference: 1905 D Quarter in DEWSBURY Volume 09B Page 506



Annie Middleton
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Annie Middleton
Age in 1911: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1906
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Morley, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Morley
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street address: 38 Howden Clough Rd Bruntcliffe
Registration district: Dewsbury
Registration District Number: 503
Sub-registration district: Morley
ED, institution, or vessel: 01
Piece: 27209
Household Members:
Name Age
William Middleton 38
Mary Ann Middleton 35
Alice Middleton 11
Clifford Middleton 8
Ada Middleton 6
Annie Middleton 5
Clarance Middleton 3


MIDDLETON, CLIFFORD mms WORTHINGTON
GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in DEWSBURY Volume 09B Page 605

MIDDLETON, ADA mms WORTHINGTON
GRO Reference: 1904 D Quarter in DEWSBURY Volume 09B Page 529

MIDDLETON, CLARENCE mms WORTHINGTON
GRO Reference: 1908 J Quarter in DEWSBURY Volume 09B Page 545


MIDDLETON, RACHEL ALICE mms WORTHINGTON
GRO Reference: 1899 S Quarter in BRAMLEY Volume 09B Page 362



Another child who died:

MIDDLETON, FLORENCE WORTHINGTON
GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in BRAMLEY Volume 09B Page 321

Death:
MIDDLETON, FLORENCE 1
GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in DEWSBURY Volume 09B Page 381

Harold Brown
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Harold Brown
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 27 Oct 1902
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 110 Clifford St
Residence Place: Hemsworth, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
Occupation: Coal Hewer
Schedule Number: 107
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: KRIT
Registration district: 506-1
Inferred Spouse: Annie Brown
Inferred Children: Kenneth H Brown
Ladia Brown
Household Members:
Name
Harold Brown
Annie Brown - 23 Oct 1905
This record is officially closed.
Kenneth H Brown - 24 June 1926
This record is officially closed.
Ladia Brown - 16 Feb 1930
This record is officially closed.
Albert Harrison



Births Sep 1926 (>99%)
Brown Kenneth H Middleton Hemsworth 9c 295

Births Mar 1930 (>99%)
Brown Nadia Middleton Hemsworth 9c 277

Births Sep 1924 (>99%)
Brown William J Middleton Hemsworth 9c 302


Marriages Dec 1923 (>99%)
Brown Harold Middleton Hemsworth 9c 347
Middleton Annie Brown Hemsworth 9c 347


Harold Brown
in the West Yorkshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935
Name: Harold Brown
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 26 Dec 1923
Marriage Place: South Kirkby, All Saints, West Yorkshire, England
Parish as it Appears: South Kirkby, All Saints
Father: John Brown
Spouse: Annie Middleton [ Father: William Middleton ]

Hi every one that helped me got marriage certificate William john Brown father was Harold Brown born 1902 in Hemsworth and died 1967. his occupation at the time was a coal hewer.and his mother was called Annie Middleton born 1905 and died 1985 . so at least we can now move on thanks Janette

He didn't have to have been born in England - Brown is very common in Scotland

DoB is not on death records before late 1969

I had considered the Bowland 1939 record , but dismissed as about 100 miles away from Doncaster - not that that's necessarily relevant.
William John could have originated anywhere in the country, not necessarily the Yorkshire area.

It's all conjecture until Janette gets the marriage cert.
And even then we need the father's occupation, and not just his name.
We already have two contenders with father named William.

The trees on ancestry say 1927 in the text but then cross reg to the gro record of july 1925

but didn't give dob only age

His death was psted at 09.28

if this is his death gives year of birth, so a maybe but marriage cert should confirm / deny

WILLIAM J
Last name BROWN
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1925
Age 42
Death quarter 1
Death year 1967
District Doncaster

fmp suggests this 1939
Pain Hill, Bowland R.D., Yorkshire (West Riding), England
William Brown 29 Apr 1886 Male Dairy Farmer Married 95 1
Dorothy Brown 15 Feb 1901 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 95 2
William John Brown 25 Mar 1925 Male Cowman Assisting Father Single 95 3
Dorothy Elizabeth Tunney (Brown) 11 Jan 1927 Female At School Single 95 4

Name: Dorothy Kenyon
Registration Date: Apr 1924
[May 1924]
[Jun 1924]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Clitheroe
Inferred County: Lancashire
Spouse: William Brown
Volume Number: 8e
Page Number: 767

DOROTHY E
Last name BROWN
Birth year 1927
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Kenyon
District Clitheroe

WILLIAM J
Last name BROWN
Birth year 1925
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Kenyon
District Clitheroe

The 1934 marriage can't be the right one anyway (apart from the fact that William was born c1924) -

That couple had a son in 1935 , in Whitby, and he (or at least one closed record) is with them in Middlesbrough in 1939.

The children in the Dearne 1939 record I posted above were all born in Doncaster, and therefore fit the 1917 marriage

It should all become less so when you get the cert

At the moment everything apart from the marriage to Freda is guesswork

so confusing

A 1934 marriage doesn't tally with a 1924 birth - and Whitby is a long way from
Doncaster

this is probably the marriage relating to the birth posted above


Marriages Dec 1917 (>99%)
Brown William Welford Doncaster 9c 1523
Welford Sarah H Brown Doncaster 9c 1523

Hi every one sorry back again just spoke to Kevin Brown he remembers his grandad been called Harold Brown . just looked on free bmd for marriages and I found Harold Brown married to Sarah M Welford . married 1934 Whitby so I think we might be on the right path thanks Janette

I don't see any tree on Ancestry saying that that's his birth.

Several Ancestry trees say he was born 4 July 1927, Yorkshire, (no proof offered) which doesn't fit with the correct death record which the trees also cite.
One says born 1924, on the basis of the death record only. No other birth info.


This would be the 1939 Register entry for the William with mms Welford, in case that turns out to be correct:

William Brown Jun
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: William Brown Jun
Gender: Male
Marital status: Single
Birth Date: 30 Mar 1925
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 44
Residence Place: Dearne, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
Occupation: At School
Schedule Number: 18
Sub Schedule Number: 3
Enumeration District: KMQG
Registration district: 512 a/1
Household Members:
Name
William Brown - 19 July 1897 - colliery deputy, heavy worker below
Ronald Brown - 4 Sept 1921
William Brown
Lewis Brown - 10 April 1927
This record is officially closed.
Helen Brown - 21 March 1933
Sherley Brown - 10 Feb 1936
Margant Brown - 12 Feb 1939
Sarah H Brown - 20 June 1897, married



Births Sep 1897 (>99%)
Wellford Sarah Hannah Doncaster 9c 790