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No John , I DO NOT show a Florence Miller anywhere

The marriage is of Samuel Joseph Ramsden and SARAH ANNE Miller, who you have in your tree as Sarah RAMSDEN. This needs to be rectified if you are to have an accurate tree.

Please read and evaluate all of the info about this couple and their children, of whom you have recorded in your tree only the ones who survived

Hi ErikaH again.
I am puzzled now as you show Florence as married to Samuel in 1887 - did Samuels first wife die and he remarried do you think? I think I shared my tree with you which shows him married to Sarah Annie.
My only other thought - was her mother not actually married to Samue (an affair??)

There is no Florence Miller in the info I posted

There is a Florence Ramsden whose mother’s maiden name was Miller. You have her in your tree, but you’ve recorded her mother’s name as Ramsden, which is incorrect.

It is vital to record accurate info

ErikaH
That is most enlightening re Florence Milller.
I was briefly introduced to 'Auntie Florrie' when I was 9. I often wondered where she fitted in. I also remember a young Allan who gt grandad was going to leave his signet ring to. A bit challenging to know which Allan that might be :)

Thanks so much for all your help!!

ErikaH
That is most enlightening re Florence Milller.
I was briefly introduced to 'Auntie Florrie' when I was 9. I often wondered where she fitted in. I also remember a young Allan who gt grandad was going to leave his signet ring to. A bit challenging to know which Allan that might be :)

Thanks so much for all your help!!

That's great!! Thanks very much, I will see what I can get into my Tree as soon as I can and then start finding the certificates relating to stuff.

I just realised I have a link to a web page which started me on revisiting this project. It was from a blog from a website called Narkive a lady who chose to be anonymous.
Here is the link
https://soc.genealogy.britain.narkive.com/DS013LEE/gg-grandfather-s-book-brick-wall-happy-ending-story.
She mentions here in her quest to find Samuel Ramsden - the only part of the puzzle that I had at that time, but it was 15 years old and no longer available. I do also have remnants of a small booklet he wrote of poems and photos all related to various parts of Consett, and a booklet on plamistry! 'The Hand and its Lessons' It would be good when I can share these with relevant folk.

Re the church (to corroborate LancashireAnn's post)-

part of a PM from John:

"You will see a church mentioned in the letter, I believe this to be the Primitive Methodist church in Consett, which has since been re-built"

possibility???

Marriages Mar 1919 (>99%)
Williams Mabel Bell Lanchester 10a 594

Births Dec 1923 (>99%)
Bell Irene Williams S.Shields 10a 1448

Marriages Dec 1950 (>99%)
Bell Irene Wilson S.Shields 1a 1751

Also if Helen was 18 in June 1951 late 1950 would be about when sh was a applying to th Guildhall School

I don't know if this snippet is any help

"Unfortunately between the 1950’s and 1960’s the congregations began to drop. Not only in the Primitive Methodists but right across all the established religions. The Primitive and Wesleyan Methodists had already amalgamated in the early 1930’s so the decision was made that it was time to come together. The Wesleyan Church in Middle Street was sold and the Avenue Church was demolished to make way for the new Consett Methodist Church. The initial stone laying took place in September 1970 and the all new modern church opened on 5th December 1970 just 2 months later."

December 30th was a Saturday in 1950.

"December 1950 was the coldest December since 1890"
https://tinyurl.com/sf2np8p

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twocommunity/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12115

https://www.netweather.tv/weather-forecasts/uk/winter/winter-history

John has Samuel's wife's surname as Ramsden in his tree

This is one of their daughters

RAMSDEN, FLORENCE ANNIE MILLER
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 242

Ergo - the marriage

Marriages Jun 1887 (>99%)
MILLER Sarah Anne Whitehaven 10b 899
Ramsden Samuel Joseph Whitehaven 10b 899

And their first-born

RAMSDEN, ISABELLA MILLER
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in BARROW-IN-FURNESS Volume 08E Page 835

Further daughters

RAMSDEN, ALICE ANNIE MILLER
GRO Reference: 1894 M Quarter in ULVERSTON Volume 08E Page 775
Deaths Sep 1894 (>99%)
Ramsden Alice Ann 0 Ulverston 8e 444b
RAMSDEN, EMILY MILLER
GRO Reference: 1890 M Quarter in BARROW-IN-FURNESS Volume 08E Page 846
Deaths Sep 1894 (>99%)
Ramsden Emily 4 Ulverston 8e 445

A son

RAMSDEN, THOMAS SAMUEL MILLER
GRO Reference: 1891 S Quarter in ULVERSTON Volume 08E Page 790
Deaths Jun 1893 (>99%)
Ramsden Thomas Samuel 1 Ulverston 8e 559

According to 1911, they'd had 7 children,of whom 5 had died

One more

RAMSDEN, MARGARET ANNIE MILLER
GRO Reference: 1889 M Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 10B Page 517
Deaths Sep 1890 (>99%)
Ramsden Margaret Annie 1 Cockermouth 10b 368

1891
John Street, Crosscanonby, Cockermouth, Cumberland, England
Samuel J Ramsden Head Married Male 29 1862 Singers Sewing Machine Agent Barnard Castle, Durham, England
Sarah A Ramsden Wife Married Female 24 1867 - Kendal, Westmorland, England
Emily Ramsden Daughter Single Female 1 1890 - Barrow in Furness, Lancashire, England



1891 for the eldest child

Market Street, Ulverston, Lancashire, England
Thomas Miller Head Married Male 56 1835 Ironmongers Warehouseman Scotland
Isabella Miller Wife Married Female 58 1833 - Westmorland, England
John W Miller Son Single Male 19 1872 Hotel Boots Domestic Servant Barrow in Furness, Lancashire, England
Isabella Ramsden Granddaughter - Female 3 1888 - Barrow in Furness, Lancashire, England

One birth/death missing - have to leave this now

This is the death of S&R's son James Edwin:

Jams Edwin Williams
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Jams Edwin Williams
Death Age: 59
Birth Date: 19 Nov 1921
Registration Date: Jul 1981
[Aug 1981]
[Sep 1981]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Durham Northern
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 1
Page: 1250

His address was still Fern Cottage, Knitley Lane, Consett (per probate notice)


If he had taken over the running of the print-works, as per the letter, he must have been at least in his 20's, making the letter sometime in the 1940's or later, which fits with the info re Helen..

Sarah & Ramsden's daughter Helen married in 1955, and was living in Essex in 2003.

I don't see her death, nor definitely that of her husband, so they may both still be living..

Going by her age on 1939 Register, if she was applying for the Guildhall School, the year of the letter must have been roughly 1949-ish, or early 1950s - but before 1955.

John has sent me a scan of the letter.
Mabel's daughter's marriage should be a clue to the date of the letter [ if Mabel is a relative ], as well as the likely ages of Sarah's children.
There's no mention of the war.


Dear Uncle Sam,
You would know that I had lost your address when I did not write to you.
I am sorry to hear that your sight is so bad, also that Isobel is in poor health again.

I have had Uncle Will in the shop one or twice during the holidays, but had not time to talk to him as we were very busy.
Auntie Polly is suffering from rheumatic pains. I sent her some tablets to give her relief.

Mabel's youngest daughter was married a few week ago, so she has the house to herself once again.

Ruby has taken over the caretakers job at the Avenue Methodist Church. All her family is still at home. She will need them now, as there is plenty of work in a church.
For my own family, Edwin has taken over the printing works, and Ramsden is concentrating more on the farms.
Helen is expecting an audition for the Guildhall School of Drama & Music.
She hopes to go there for 3 years if she is accepted.

Ramsden and I are both keeping well.
Uncle Allen is still going strong and we have had Xmas cards from Aunt Maggie.

The weather is very tretcherous [sic] just now. The roads are dry and it is snowing heavily. We have had it like this for more than a month.

Well, I think this is all just now so I will close, wishing you the best of health during the coming year.
Your affectionate niece and nephew, Sarah and Ramsden.

No-one who gives help on here uses GR for research, John

Yes, on FMP AG.

However on here you can do it -
Click on Search at the top of this board and then under
All Categories to the left of the drop down box
Click on Census , Land and Surveys

Box now headed Search our Historical Records (try Ada Ramsden)
Input First name and Last name
Under event type, click on Other event
Put in a year i.e. 1881 for census
Click on Search now - there are 200 + results for Ada Ramsden so a lot to look through
BUT if you put Durham in the Optional Keywords box before Search now then you'll only get 7 results (her birth year is 2 out, her age must have been given wrongly)
Look at each to find correct one

Her sister Margaret A Ramadan,also shows because of initial A - both in Barrow in Furness - right age

I think Greyghost found those censuses on Find My Past - not on GR.

We helpers don't generally use GR for finding records.

Thanks greyghost
That all looks correct, I need get to grips with how to find that on here. The site has altered since I used to use it in 2007. Can you explain how you got to that info on here. It's interesting to see Sam there as he seems to disappear quite quickly and move all over the place, I have him located in Consett, Maryport, Lancaster ... and eventually in Barnsley (Sth Yks) where I knew him.

I'll gladly have a look at the letter, if you can scan it, and save it on your computer.

Click on my name at the top of one of my posts, then attach the scanned letter where it says "Attachments" - and click "Send".

If there's more than one page, I think you'll need to attach each page separately - ie - each page in a different message to me - as I don't think you can attach more than one document per message.

1881 - the Ramsdens of Ramsden Street

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
157, Ramsden Street, Barrow in Furness, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Allan Ramsden Head Married Male 30 1851 Photographer Hunston, Yorkshire, England
Margaret Ramsden Wife Married Female 38 1843 - Barnard Castle, Durham, England
Mary Alice Ramsden Daughter Single Female 17 1864 D Servant Barnard Castle, Durham, England
Sarah J Ramsden Daughter Single Female 15 1866 Scholar Barnard Castle, Durham, England
Margaret A Ramsden Daughter Single Female 13 1868 Scholar Barnard Castle, Durham, England
Ada Ramsden Daughter Single Female 9 1872 Scholar Barnard Castle, Durham, England
Allan Ramsden Son Single Male 7 1874 Scholar Durham, England
William J H Ramsden Son Single Male 4 1877 Scholar Durham, England
Abraham Luny Boarder Single Male 24 1857 General Dealer Germany