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You say, "I don't know who George Watson was??"

I'm not sure what you mean.

You've been given the 1935 marriage record, and the 1939 register showing Florence and George, with their dates of birth.

Then you've been given George's death in 1979.

This is his birth:

WATSON, GEORGE ANDREW mms BIRKINSHAW
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 210


The only other record you'll find him on is the 1911 census - it would help to know his father's name.



His mother's name was Birkinshaw.

So this will be his parents' marriage:

Marriages Dec 1901 (>99%)
BIRKINSHAW Elizabeth Ann Barnsley 9c 450
Watson Andrew Smith Barnsley 9c 450

John -
you asked about seeing original census documents.

Most of us on here don't use GR for finding records, but I've had a look, as that seems to be what you're using.

You can't just find a random census (and incidentally, there's no census for 1831) without specifying a person's name. Well, you can, but if you don't enter a person's name, and only select "other" and the date of the census, as you say you've been doing, then you get (taking 1841 as an example) 18237874 results - ie - the total number of census entries in 1841 for the whole of England and Wales - but not showing any person's name.
If you click on the "page" logo at the right hand side of any of those results at random, you're asked to spend 5 credits to view a transcription ( NOT an original document) and you don't know in advance whose record you'll be looking at. Pointless!

So you need to look for a specific person in that year.
To find (for instance) Allan Ramsden (born 1842), you select Census, Land and Surveys, put in his name and year of birth, LEAVE "EVENT TYPE" AS "BIRTH" and click "Search now".
That will give you all the censuses in which he is listed.
At least, it gives you all the censuses in which his birth is given as 1842 - not those where it's given as something else.
To look at the original of any of them, click on the camera logo at the right hand side. When you confirm that you're willing to spend 5 credits, you'll see the image of the original document.

It's a great deal easier to find someone on censuses on Ancestry or FMP, and also much easier to spot that person in years where the YOB isn't what you're expecting it to be - which is why we don't use GR for records.

As for Florence that marriage info does look better than I have especially with the son who lived/lives in an area of Barnsley I know quite well (Michel street).
I have found the sons record birht record but cannot find Goerge A (the husband) All I hve foudn so far is Alfie George.

Yes that last info on Allan (not Allen by the way as in some records) at Cockfield with the family - all agrees with what I have! Thanks :)

I cant believe that to be Anston are Aston (cum Aughton) which are villages adjoining Sheffield and down the road from me. All his travels are around the Durham area and I feel I have seen a reference to Auton in the Durham area in a document that I cant find at present. That reference to Newton as Josephs wife is very useful, it seems from a blog I read that she suffered from an abusive relationship and died at around 40.
I must say I am having great trouble in finding census references as mentioned, I used to find it much easier in earlier days to just link to the original hand written documents, is it possible to do that still, or am I getting it wrong in the way I am using the site? I am selecting Census Land and surveys on the left and using 'other in the 'event type box plus the year in question e.g. 1831.
Thanks again to you fro so much help!

Anston cum Aughton ( yes, I see I spelled it wrongly by mistake on page 4), is the same place as North and South Anston, which Ann suggested.


"Anston is a civil parish in South Yorkshire, England, formally known as North and South Anston. The parish of Anston-cum-Aughton consists of the settlements of North Anston and South Anston, divided by the Anston Brook."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anston

I KNOW that was your grandmother in 1939

I posted the info as an explanation for giving consideration to the Barnsley marriage of Florence Marsden to George Watson. Please look at the previous page for info.

Thank you all
ErikaH, The Barnsley address you give is for my gran Izabella (known as Isobel) 2 California Street. That is where I visited as a boy to see my gran and her father (blind) Samuel Joseph, William my uncle, Dorothy and and William Thompson my uncle and aunt, the dates you give me are very useful and I will now fill them in

I don't know who George Watson was??

Yes LancashireAnn, I do have the obituary, the letter I have refers to the church and also to Ruby taking over as caretaker.
I thiink you are right about the birthdate of 1842, I have a couple of references to that, I can only assume the others are errors as all the accompanying info is correct. Adso the obituary you mention infers 1942.
As for Auton I will look further into that, if it is Yorkshire it is probably Aston cum Auton (which is now spelled Aughton) and is very near to where I live. It would make sense related to the Barnsley address too, but I believe there is a similar name in the 'Durham' area that I have come accross. If you were to read the book (Life in a caravan) he spends his life around Consett and those districts. He does move addresses quite allot. I will look at all the censuses you mention with great interest.

Thank you again, as ever very helpful, I will get on uopdating stuff and now I have Allans family details I will further populate the tree :)

"1911 census says he was born in Church Auston, Derbyshire, 1842.
1901 says Auston, Yorkshire, 1837.
1891 says Auston, Yorkshire, 1842.
1881 says Auston, Yorkshire, 1851
1871 says Austin, Durham, 1842
1861 says Auston, 1842
1851 says Church Auston, Yorkshire, 1842."

looking at this I would say it is Anston not Auton (the 'n' is the same as on his name) and there is a South Anston & North Anston in West Yorkshire

Anston is in the registration disrict of Worksop which fits withe the 1842 birth

Just for interest have you seen the obituary of the Allan Ramsden who wrote that book about his travels with a caravan (d 1928 age 86). Teesdale Mercury

It also says he was the organist in the Primitive Methodist Chapel in Barnard Castle

If you google Allan Ramsden author you will find it

In another post by his grt grandaughter the 1881 she posts shows his birth to be 1841/42

First name(s) GEORGE ANDREW
Last name WATSON
Gender Male
Birth day 8
Birth month 10
Birth year 1903
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 1979
District Barnsley
County Yorkshire
Volume 3
Page 0231

My reason for looking at the Barnsley marriage is this...................
1939
2 California Street, Barnsley C.B., Yorkshire (West Riding), England

W Figtree 02 Jun 1882 Male General Labourer Married 182 1
Isobel Figtree 28 Dec 1887 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 182 2
William P Thompson 31 Mar 1904 Male Coal Miner (Underground) Married 182 3
Dorothy Thompson 27 Sep 1918 Female Domestic Servant Married 182 4

Re Allan Ramsden's birth - differences in age on different censuses are common. It's usually human error in hearing or writing the person's age. People often lied about their age, too, though I don't think that's the case with Allan.

Also, the age on a death cert depends on what the informant says - it's not necessarily accurate.

1911 census says he was born in Church Auston, Derbyshire, 1842.
1901 says Auston, Yorkshire, 1837.
1891 says Auston, Yorkshire, 1842.
1881 says Auston, Yorkshire, 1851
1871 says Austin, Durham, 1842
1861 says Auston, 1842
1851 says Church Auston, Yorkshire, 1842.

His parents were Joseph and Jane


Can't find Church Auston definitively on a Google search.
Could be "Aston cum Aughton" near Rotherham, or Aston on Trent, Derbyshire.
There's also a place called Church Aston in Shropshire.

This is the family in 1851:

Allan Ramsden
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Allan Ramsden
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Son
Father's name: Joseph Ramsden
Mother's name: Jane Ramsden
Gender: Male
Where born: Church Auston, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Cockfield
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district: Teesdale
Sub-registration district: Staindrop
ED, institution, or vessel: 1b
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 2387
Folio: 14
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Ramsden 36 - Bramley, Yorkshire
Jane Ramsden 35 - Whitby, Yorkshire
Allan Ramsden 9
William Ramsden 7 - Church Auston, Yorkshire
Samuel Ramsden 4 - Cockfield, Durham
Mary Ann Ramsden 1 - Cockfield, Durham
Thomas Ramsden 22 - lodger, Bramley, Yorkshire


so this will be the parents' marriage:

Marriages Mar 1838 (>99%)
NEWTON Jane Whitby 24 447
RAMSDEN Joseph Whitby 24 447

Allan's birth - 1842 (or maybe late 1841 - you'd need to see the birth cert to be sure):

RAMSDEN, ALLEN mms NEWTON
GRO Reference: 1842 M Quarter in WORKSOP UNION Volume 15 Page 677

Worksop reg district covers places in parts of West Yorkshire, Derbyshire, and Nottinghamshire.


His siblings:

RAMSDEN, MARY ANN mms NEWTON
GRO Reference: 1849 S Quarter in TEESDALE UNION Volume 24 Page 367

RAMSDEN, WILLIAM mms NEWTON
GRO Reference: 1844 J Quarter in WORKSOP Volume 15 Page 666

RAMSDEN, SAMUEL mms NEWTON
GRO Reference: 1847 J Quarter in TEESDALE UNION Volume 24 Page 368

IF she married, this COULD be her

Marriages Jun 1935 (>99%)

Ramsden Florence A Watson Barnsley 9c 695
Watson George A Ramsden Barnsley 9c 695

and a son - name fits with antecedents in family

Births Mar 1936 (>99%)
WATSON Allan A Ramsden Barnsley 9c 312

1939

Birth year isn't clear on the image, and could be 1902

Agreed, the date of 25th isn't correct for 'your' Florence, so you will need to check further

George Andrew Watson 08 Oct 1903 Male Scrap Iron & Stich Labourer (H? Married 67 1
Florence Annie Watson 25 Dec 1907 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 67 2
One closed record

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1931
Surname Forename(s) Age or Date of Birth Year Sub-District Registers At Reference
RAMSDEN Sarah Annie 64 1931 Lancaster Preston LAN/126/85

First name(s) Florence Annie
Last name Ramsden
Year 1931
Season -
Polling district or place Lancaster
Constituency P C of Lancashire, Lancaster Division
Constituency in full Parliamentary County of Lancashire, Lancaster Division
County Lancashire
Country England
Register type Parliamentary County

STILL with her parents!!

Address No 2, Myndon Street, Skerton (Same address as 1911)

LANDER, HELEN 1933
GRO Reference: DOR Q1/2016 in Essex (463-1A) Entry Number 513118358

1939
John J R Williams 24 Nov 1896 Male Newspaper Proprietor Master Printer Married 339 1
Sarah E Williams 08 Oct 1896 Female Shop Manageress Married 339 2
James E Williams 19 Nov 1921 Male Apprentice Printer Single 339 3
Helen Lander (Williams) 26 Jun 1933 Female At School Single 339 4

There is a Florence A Clarke married to Robert Clarke b 1897 in the 1939 register b 5/11/1898 which fits with a FREEBMD birth in Dec qtr 1898 of a Florence Annie Ramsden. Father Henry Ramsden occ miner (I think)

On the image of the 1920 marriage to Robert Clarke on 27/3/1920 she is age 21 not 17. Where did you get the 17 from please?

This is your Florence's baptism - in 1911, she was in Lancaster

Name: Florence Annie Ramsden
Age: 0
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 20 Dec 1902
Baptism Date: 11 Feb 1903
Baptism Place: Barnsley, St John the Baptist, Yorkshire, England
Father: Samuel Joseph Ramsden
Mother: Sarah Annie Ramsden

First name(s) Florence A
Last name Ramsden
Birth year 1902
Birth date 20 Dec 1902
Event year 1908
School name Skerton County Primary School
Town Skerton
County Lancashire
Country England
Parent name(s) Samuel
Book type Admissions

Florence's husband's correct surname

Marriages Mar 1920 (>99%)
Clarke Robert Ramsden Rotherham 9c 1153
Ramsden Florence A Clarke Rotherham 9c 1153


Why do you think that's 'your' Florence? Do you have the cert?

There's a woman of the same name born in Rotherham in 1898, which could just as easily be the one who married Clarke - in Rotherham

Just found Allan's father Joseph Ramsden 1815 ! :)