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Sorry to hear that - hope she's soon fully recovered.

If you want to know anything about John, you'll need to buy a copy of the marriage cert, and hope that he was truthful

Hi.Sorry for lack of response.My wife poorly at present so a bit tied up at present.
Will have a better look as and when.
Thanks to all,Terry L.

Connected - but not a duplicate

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1382148

Have you found Mary Welsh nee Liddle after 1891?


If not -
I'm wondering about this couple, on the random assumption that John Stephenson Welsh had scarpered soon after marriage, and Mary had reverted to her maiden surname:

Marriages Dec 1894 (>99%)
Liddle Mary Jane Auckland 10a 348
Little Mary Jane Auckland 10a 348
Steele William Gilbert Auckland 10a 348


William in 1891:

William G Steele
in the 1891 England Census
Name: William G Steele
Gender: Male
Age: 17
Relationship: Son
Birth Year: 1874
Father: Wardle Steele
Mother: Ann Steele
Birth Place: Guisborough, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Brandon
Ecclesiastical parish: St Johns
Residence Place: Brandon, Durham, England
Registration district: Durham
Sub registration district: St Oswald
ED, Institution or Vessel: 16
Neighbors:
Piece: 4098
Folio: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Wardle Steele 34
Ann Steele 36
William G Steele 17
James E Steele 12
Thomas Groman 22
Kate King 1


William Gilbert Steele
in the Transvaal Province, South Africa, Estates Death Notice Index, 1855-1976
Name: William Gilbert Steele
Death Year: 1909
Death Country: South Africa
Title: Transvaal Estates Death Index (Master of the Supreme Court, Pretoria)
Source: National Archives, Pretoria
Reference Number: 13489


Probate to his mother Annie -

William Gilbert Steele
in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995
Name: William Gilbert Steele
Death Date: 21 Mar 1909
Death Place: Africa
Probate Date: 28 Jul 1909
Probate Registry: London, England


EDIT:
NO, PROBABLY NOT, though not impossible. Mary would have been 10 years older than William.

If the 1891 census, posted by alviegal, showing Mary with parents Robert and Mary, is definitely the correct one, then this is Mary's birth:

LIDDLE, MARY mms MINIKIN
GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 153

(No middle name at birth.)


Siblings from 1891 census:

LIDDLE, THOMAS ROBERT mms MINIKIN
GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 161

LIDDLE, GEORGE WILLIAM mms MINIKIN
GRO Reference: 1875 S Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 282


Parents' marriage:

Marriages Dec 1863 (>99%)
Liddle Robert Auckland 10a 274
Minikin Mary Auckland 10a 274


The younger children appear to have a different mother, also called Mary :

LIDDLE, JOHN WILLIE -
GRO Reference: 1883 M Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 193

LIDDLE, ISABEL JANE -
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 239


Burial of Mary, wife of Robert (there's a photo of her gravestone, citing husband Robert of Sunnyside):

Mary Liddle
in the UK and Ireland, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current
Name: Mary Liddle
Birth Date: 1843
Birth Place: Brandon, Durham Unitary Authority, County Durham, England
Death Date: 9 Aug 1908
Death Place: Durham Unitary Authority, County Durham, England
Cemetery: St. Thomas Churchyard
Burial or Cremation Place: Crook, Durham Unitary Authority, County Durham, England


I don't see the likely death of an earlier Mary (wife of Robert) in the period 1875-1883.
Both Marys were born 1843 in Durham RD.

I wonder if there was only one Mary, and if John and Isabella are in fact grandchildren, but listed as children in censuses.

hi
do you have the marriage cert ?

There were 2 Mary Liddle's born in Auckland in 1864
One in 1st Q and one in 2nd Q
Do you know which one is yours

The 1891 Census is definitely my family and this made me search for John S.Welsh after seeing the 1887 marriage record.
Terry L.

Mary, nee Liddle (married) is with her parents in 1891, as posted by alviegal

????

Record Transcription:
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

185 & 187, Albert Road, Hedworth Monkton and Yarrow, South Shields, Durham, England

Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William John Taylor Head Married Male 39 1852 Grocer Thornham, Norfolk, England
Gertrude Taylor Daughter - Female 8 1883 Scholar Jarrow, Durham, England
Percy Edwd Taylor Son - Male 6 1885 Scholar Jarrow, Durham, England
Wilfred Ernest Taylor Son - Male 4 1887 - Jarrow, Durham, England
Mary Taylor Mother Widow Female 68 1823 - Norfolk, England
Sarah Chilvers Visitor Widow Female 69 1822 - Gaywood, Norfolk, England
George Rothnie Boarder Single Male 27 1864 Ship Joiner Scotland
John J Stephenson Boarder Single Male 21 1870 Marine Engine Fitter Hinderwell, Yorkshire, England
Mary Jane Welsh Servant Single Female 22 1869 General Servant Domestic Monkwearmouth, Durham, England

Record Transcription:
England Marriages 1538-1973
What can I do with this record?
Add To Tree
Attach this record as a source to a person on your tree. Also update people and relatives with details from this record
First name(s) William
Last name Welsh
Name note -
Age 26
Marriage year 1851
Marriage date 09 Jun 1851
Marriage place Monk-Wearmouth
Father's first name(s) Ralph
Father's last name Welsh
Spouse's first name(s) Ellen
Spouse's last name Lister
Spouse's birth year 1830
Spouse's birth date 1830
Spouse's father's first name(s) John
Spouse's father's last name Lister
Residence Monk-Wearmouth, Durham, England
County Durham
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain

Record Transcription:
Durham Baptisms

First name(s) John Lister
Last name Welsh
Birth year 1863
Birth date ? ? 1863
Baptism year 1863
Baptism date 19 Apr 1863
Parish Lumley
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name -
Mother's first name(s) Ellen
Mother's last name Welsh
County Durham
Country England
Document type Parish Registers
Record set Durham Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from England, Great Britain

Yes, I was just going to post that couples marriage:-

Name: John Lister Welsh
Registration Year: 1884
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Chester le Street
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 567
Records on Page:
Name
****Elizabeth Liddle
William Lynn
****John Lister Welsh
Margaret Ann Welsh

...........................

Elizabeth Ann Liiddle Welsh is the only one born in South Shields so maybe she was John and Mary's child?

This is the family for the Chester le Street births. Elizabeth Ann may be their child but I'm not finding her in any census.


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Pottery Row, Great Lumley, Chester Le Street, Durham, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John L Welsh Head Married Male 28 1863 Mason Great Lumley, Durham, England
Eliza Welsh Wife Married Female 25 1866 - Great Lumley, Durham, England
William N Welsh Son - Male 6 1885 Scholar Great Lumley, Durham, England
Sarah E Welsh Daughter - Female 4 1887 Scholar Great Lumley, Durham, England
Dorothy E Welsh Daughter - Female 3 1888 - Great Lumley, Durham, England
Margaret E Welsh Daughter - Female 1 1890 - Great Lumley, Durham, England

Children born to the couple?

WELSH, DOROTHY LIDDLE
GRO Reference: 1888 J Quarter in CHESTER-LE-STREET Volume 10A Page 525
WELSH, ELIZABETH ANN LIDDLE LIDDLE
GRO Reference: 1890 S Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS Volume 10A Page 843
WELSH, MARGARET LIDDLE
GRO Reference: 1889 D Quarter in CHESTER LE STREET Volume 10A Page 479
WELSH, ELLEN JANE LIDDLE
GRO Reference: 1893 S Quarter in CHESTER LE STREET Volume 10A Page 537

This one's married, occupation Railway Clerk

1891

Name: John Welsh
Gender: Male
Age: 27
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1864
Birth Place: Collierey, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Benfieldside
Ecclesiastical parish: St Cuthberts
Residence Place: Benfieldside, Durham, England
Registration district: Lanchester
Sub registration district: Consett
ED, Institution or Vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4089
Folio: 33
Household Members:
Name Age
John Welsh 27


Only the marriage cert will provide any useful info

What research have you actually done, Terry?

Where have you looked?

So is this YOUR Mary in 1891?

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Gladstone Terrace, Crook and Billy Row, Auckland, Durham, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert Liddle Head Married Male 51 1840 Coal Miner Durham, England
Mary Liddle Wife Married Female 48 1843 Dressmaker Brandon, Durham, England
>>Mary S Welsh Daughter Married Female 27 1864 Dressmaker Durham, England
Thomas R Liddle Son Single Male 22 1869 Coal Miner South Church, Durham, England
George W Liddle Son Single Male 15 1876 Labourer Durham, England
John W Liddle Son Single Male 8 1883 Scholar Escomb, Durham, England
Isabella Liddle Daughter Single Female 6 1885 Scholar Sunnyside, Durham, England
Thomas P Game Boarder Single Male 25 1866 Coal Miner Durham, England
Jeremiah Dawcoll Boarder Single Male 34 1857 Coal Miner -
Thomas Boyle Visitor Single Male 28 1863 Labourer Ireland

From https://www.freebmd.org.uk

Marriages Jun 1887 (>99%)
Henderson William Auckland 10a 288 Scan available - click to view
Liddle Mary Auckland 10a 288 Scan available - click to view
METCALFE Mary Jane Auckland 10a 288 Scan available - click to view
Welsh John Stephenson Auckland 10a 288

England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005

First name(s) MARY JANE
Last name METCALFE
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1887
Registration month -

MarriageFinder ™


MARY JANE METCALFE married one of these people

William Henderson, John Stapleton (reads Stephenson) Welsh, John Marr
District Auckland
District number -
County Durham