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Big thank you to all who offered suggestions and leads. Nothing concrete so far, but I will continue to get as much info from the living family to continue my search :-) :-)

Just to complicate things more, if that's possible - the birth surname might not necessarily be Nicholls.

I had wondered about the family below, because of the earlier suggestion of Newcastle - well, it's very roughly in the same part of the country - but the children are variously registered as Nichols, Nicholls, Nicholas, and Nicholson.
All mms Lewis.

John Thomas Nichols
in the 1911 England Census
Name: John Thomas Nichols
Age in 1911: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1903
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Middlesbrough
County/Island: Yorkshire-North Riding
Country: England
Street address: 74 Lords St
Occupation: School
Registration district: Middlesbrough
Registration District Number: 535
Sub-registration district: Middlesbrough West
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Piece: 29283
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Nichols 41
Mary Jane Nichols 33
Elizabeth Nichols 12
Charles Nichols 13
Lewis Nichols 11
John Thomas Nichols 8
Alfred Nichols 6
George Nichols 1/12

Parents' marriage:
Marriages Mar 1897 (>99%)
LEWIS Mary Jane Middlesbro' 9d 794
Nichols Charles Middlesbro' 9d 794


In 1901 the family are Nicholas.

But anyway, there's no Robert, and no Elsie, so I've discounted them.

Have now checked that family re a possible sister Elsie or similar - can't find one after 1911, and there isn't one with the parents in 1901.

This is the birth posted by Kay, to give mms - just in case it turns out to be the right family:

NICHOLLS, JOHN THOMAS mms LOWE
GRO Reference: 1902 D Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 104

A couple of the other children, to prove that's the birth of the child in the census:

NICHOLLS, GEORGE FREDERICK mms LOWE
GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 47

NICHOLLS, CHARLES HENRY mms LOWE
GRO Reference: 1904 M Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 72

The family in 1901:

Edwd Nicholls
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Edwd Nicholls
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1899
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: Edward Nicholls
Mother: Lizzie Nicholls
Birth Place: West Ham, Essex, England
Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Plaistow
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors:
Piece: 1570
Folio: 86
Page Number: 53
Household schedule number: 354
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Nicholls 29
Lizzie Nicholls 26
Edwd Nicholls 2
Wm Geo Nicholls 4/12

I don't believe this is the right family.

Funnily enough, I was looking at that 1911 last night (among others), because of this PM from Dee in answer to questions I had asked on this thread. I was therefore looking for a John with sister Elsie or similar (Elizabeth ? ). There's no such daughter with this family, but maybe she was born after 1911 - haven't checked that yet:


Hello, in answer to your questions...

What father's name is given on the birth certs of your father and aunt? JOHN NICHOLLS - THATS ALL. ADDRESS 42 HARROW ROAD.

Who was the informant on your grandmother's death cert? HER DAUGHTER SYLVIA MAY NICHOLLS. .

Could it have been someone who didn't know her husband's name was James Henry? ALL THE FAMILY ADVISE THEIR FATHER WAS NAMED JOHN THOMAS NICHOLLS
Especially bearing in mind that he'd left the family in 1947. LEFT 'AROUND' THAT TIME. SYLVIA WAS THE LAST CHILD TO BE BORN, AND I AM SUMMISING THAT WE LEFT AFTER THAT.

Or could he have changed his name for some reason between 1928 and 1939? MYSTERY ??

I know the birth of James (Dec qr 1903) doesn't match the DOB of John as stated in 1939. But DOBs given in 1939 are frequently wrong. THE DATES OF MY GRANDMOTHER, FATHER AND AUNT ARE CORRECT, SEEMS A BIT WEIRD THAT GRANDADS BIRTH DATE IS WRONG??


Possible death of James Henry if the informant got the year wrong ???
I SPOKE WITH THE ELDEST CHILD ON SUNDAY(MY UNCLE JOHN THOMAS NICHOLLS- APPARENTLY NAMED AFTER HIS FATHER) HE SAID HIS FATHER WAS SOMETIMES KNOWN AS JACK BUT NEVER JAMES HENRY. HE SAID HIS FATHER EMIGRATED TO AUSTRALIA IN HIS YOUNGER DAYS, AND I FOUND AN INCOMING PASSENGER LIST WITH A 'THOMAS NICHOLLS' "BIRTH DATE AROUND 1904" RETURNING FROM AUSTRALIA TO LONDON JULY 1933 (ATTACHED)AND MY UNCLE JOHN WAS BORN EXACTLY 9 MONTHS LATER IN APRIL 1934.
UNCLE JOHN ALSO SAID HIS BROTHER HAD A SISTER NAMED ELSIE (AFTER WHICH ONE OF MY AUNTS WAS NAMED) AND SHE LIVED IN LOUGHTON. I DON'T KNOW IF SHE WAS OLDER OR YOUNGER BUT I CANNOT FIND A JOHN (BORN 1904) AND ELSIE NICHOLLS TOGETHER ON THE 1911 CENSUS.

I WILL KEEP SEARCHING AS THIS IS DRIVING ME CRAZY.



This is the travel record Dee refers to. Unfortunately there is a line through this Thomas Nicholls's name, so presumably he was not on that voyage after all. He's a stoker with the RN, and the address he's going to is 69 Mayville Road, Leytonstone, which is certainly the right part of London. I can't find it on ER in 1937, though :

Thomas Nicholls
in the UK and Ireland, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name: Thomas Nicholls
Arrival Age: 29
Birth Date: abt 1904
Port of Departure: Brisbane, Australia
Arrival Date: 21 Jul 1933
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ports of Voyage: Brisbane; Sydney; Hobart; Melbourne; Adelaide; Fremantle; Colombo; Aden; Port Said and Malta
Ship Name: Ballarat
Shipping Line: P and O Steam Navigation Company Ltd
Official Number: 145596

Just throwing this into the mix,partley because he has sibling -Robert.and the 1939 register could be wrong regards birth year.
?


View Map
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name:
John Nicholls
Age in 1911:
8
Estimated birth year:
abt 1903
Relation to Head:
Son
Gender:
Male
Birth Place:
West Ham, Essex
Civil Parish:
West Ham
Search Photos:
Search for 'West Ham' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island:
Essex
Country:
England
Street address:
61 Meeson Rd, West Ham, Stratford, E
Occupation:
School
Registration district:
West Ham
Registration District Number:
188
Sub-registration district:
Forest Gate
ED, institution, or vessel:
35
Piece:
9408
Household Members:
Name
Age
Edward Nicholls
39
Elizabeth Nicholls
37
Edward Nicholls
12
William Nicholls
10
John Nicholls
8
Charles Nicholls
7
Robert Nicholls
5
George Nicholls
5
James Nicholls
3
Joseph Nicholls
1/12
Charles Grimwood
47
Elizabeth Grimwood
53.



Births Jun 1902 (>99%)

Nicholls
John Thomas G

Greenwich
1d
1051


Births Dec 1902 (>99%)

NICHOLLS
John Thomas

W. Ham
4a
104

Yes, that's already posted, and it looks as if he's the man who married Sarah Clements in 1928.

So the three closed records with him in 1939 will likely be Sarah and the two children - Kenneth and his sister.
(I had thought I couldn't find them in 1939.)
Therefore definitely a different family from the other Sarah Clements and John Nicholls.

Which means we're no further forward re John Thomas.

Ancestry has a James Henry born to James Henry and Mary Ann on 17th Sept 1903 ,and baptised on 1st nov 1903 West Drayton Middlesex

EDIT:
Ignore this post.

The daughter in this post was born in the same qr of 1939 as John & Sarah's daughter Elise/Elsie - both in West Ham.
So two different families, apparently.
But can't see any other likely marriage - which is where we came in!


_______________


There's a Kenneth N Nicholls, mms Clements, born West Ham.
He appears to have died in Rotherham in 1994.

[I see I've searched for him before - did someone post something on here about him, and then delete it, maybe?]

Sarah E Nicholls
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Sarah E Nicholls
Electoral Date: 1963
Street address: 163 Bu'rchell Road [ 163 Boundary Road, mistranscribed ]
Ward or Division/Constituency: Lea Bridge East
County or Borough: Leyton , England
Reference Number: LCC/PER/B/2943

Living with Kenneth N, June R, and Henry.

In 1964 she's at that address, on her own.

The daughter's birth also gives mms Clements.
She married, and is still living, as far as I can see.

So who's Henry, with them in 1963 above?

Is James Henry's wife not your Sarah E Clement ?
Your Sarah was in Leyton in 1939.

If James & Sarah are a different family, I don't see them in 1939.

Has this family already been discounted? I'm sure I've seen something about it before.

Maybe just coincidence - but given that she died in Ealing;

Mary Ann Nicholls
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Mary Ann Nicholls
Electoral Date: 1949
Street address: 79a XVilson, Joan [ 79a Hicks Avenue mistranscribed]
Ward or Division/Constituency: Ealing North
County or Borough: Ealing, England
Reference Number: MR/PER/C/0796

At number 78 are a family of Newells:
Irene I, Irene M R, and William W

On second thoughts, this is probably the man who died in 1980:

James H Nicholls
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: James H Nicholls
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 17 Sep 1903
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 51
Residence Place: Thurrock, Essex, England
Occupation: General Labourer
Schedule Number: 59
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: DCMI
Registration district: 192-1
Household Members:
Name
James H Nicholls
[and 3 closed records ]

Can only find 1 James Henry born Dec 1904 and thats in East Stonehouse

oops wrong month

What father's name is given on the birth certs of your father and aunt?

Who was the informant on your grandmother's death cert? Could it have been someone who didn't know her husband's name was James Henry? Especially bearing in mind that he'd left the family in 1947.

Or could he have changed his name for some reason between 1928 and 1939?

I know the birth of James (Dec qr 1903) doesn't match the DOB of John as stated in 1939. But DOBs given in 1939 are frequently wrong.


Possible death of James Henry if the informant got the year wrong ???

James Henry Nicholls
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: James Henry Nicholls
Death Age: 78
Birth Date: 17 Sep 1901
Registration Date: Jan 1980
[Feb 1980]
[Mar 1980]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Gravesend
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 16
Page: 1048

Mother's death ???:

Mary Ann Nicholls
in the London, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-2003
Name: Mary Ann Nicholls
Age: 82
Record Type: Burial
Birth Date: abt 1878
Death Date: 29 Apr 1960
Burial Date: 29 Apr 1960
Burial Place: Greenford, Ealing, England
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript


Deaths Jun 1960 (>99%)
NICHOLLS Mary A 82 Ealing 5e 36

This all fits the 1928 marriage details.

NICHOLLS, JAMES HENRY mms STEVENS
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in UXBRIDGE Volume 03A Page 31



???
James Henry Nicholls
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1917
Name: James Henry Nicholls
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 1 Nov 1903
Baptism Place: West Drayton, Hillingdon, England
Father: James Henry Nicholls
Mother: Mary Ann Nicholls
Register Type: Parish Registers


Parents' marriage:

James Henry Nicholls
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: James Henry Nicholls
Registration Year: 1902
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Eton
Inferred County: Buckinghamshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 1521
Records on Page:
Name
James Henry Nicholls
Mary Ann Stevens


James Nicholls
in the 1911 England Census
Name: James Nicholls
Age in 1911: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1904
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: West Drayton, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Norwood
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address: 110 Hammond Road, Southall
Registration district: Uxbridge
Registration District Number: 127
Sub-registration district: Hayes
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Piece: 6802
Household Members:
Name Age
James Nicholls 37
Mary Nicholls 32
James Nicholls 7
Elizabeth Nicholls 5
Mary Nicholls 3
Susanah Nicholls 1


Possibly father's death??

NICHOLLS, JAMES HENRY 51
GRO Reference: 1925 M Quarter in BRENTFORD Volume 03A Page 175

PM from Dee:

My grandmothers birth certificate states:
15th April 1909 Elizabeth Sarah, father not mentioned, Mother: Elizabeth Newell (Laundry Hand). Elizabeth Newell went on to marry Thomas James Clements. My Grandmother changed her name to Clements. Her death certificate confirms her Maiden name as Newell although all her children have Clements on their birth certificates.
Her death certificate also confirms wife of JOHN THOMAS NICHOLLS but I have yet to find a marriage with the two of them.

Hi Rose,

Marriage: THE PARISH CHURCH IN THE PARISH OF GREENFORD IN THE COUNTY OF MIDDLESEX

25TH DECEMBER 1928
JAMES HENRY NICHOLLS age: 25 BATCHLOR LABOROUR 23 RUISLIP ROAD FATHER: JAMES HENRY NICHOLLS - DECEASED

SARAH ELIZABETH CLEMENTS age:19 SPINSTER FACTORY WORKER 25 RUISLIP ROAD FATHER: JAMES CLEMENTS COALMAN
Her birth cert says Elizabeth Sarah, her death cert says Sarah Van Noey (she took her partners name) known as Elizabeth Sarah Nicholls-she was known as Betty to family and friends.

IN THE PRESENCE OF MARY ANN NICHOLLS & FRANCIS WILLIAM(?) WRIGHT
I cannot find a birth for James Henry or John Thomas on 25th June 1904.

regards

Thanks to all for the feedback. I can confirm that all the information regarding my Grandmother is correct. However, I still cannot find a birth, marriage or death for JOHN THOMAS NICHOLLS - birth confirmed as 25th June 1904 :-(

It would be good if ALL the help was acknowledged

Dee,

Can you list ages, parents and witnesses from that marriage for Sarah E Clements.

We're still not clear on who her parents were. Can you tell us more about her?

Rose

pm from Dee

Evening Catherine, thank you for your response.
On my Grandmothers death cert it says WIFE OF JOHN THOMAS NICHOLLS
I cannot find a marriage for them, although I can find A MARRIAGE for a JAMES HENRY NICHOLLS marrying someone with my Grandmothers exact name - SARAH ELIZABETH CLEMENTS - her fathers name is also correct on the certificate.
His father also being JAMES HENRY NICHOLLS.
For some reason I cannot find my parents marriage certificate but will keep looking. On my Fathers birth certificate it only says JOHN NICHOLLS.
regards, Dee