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I have a situation where 2 Marson sisters married 2 Wilcockson brothers. Thomas and Susan married in 1874, Martha and William married in 1879. Census data from 1881 through to 1911 shows both couples in Stoneyford, Derbyshire throughout. The 1911 census indicates that Thomas and Susan had 16 children only 5 of whom were still living, William and Martha show 7 children 4 still alive. Census data gives me the living children, but only 1 of those who is dead. I have identified 22 birth registrations for Wilcockson and variant Wilcoxson with MMN Marson and a couple of variant spellings in the Basford RD, which straddled the Notts/Derby border. I did this by searching the GRO index using the variant options they provide for Wilcockson, ultimately without any MMN, and trawling for anything that might be a misheard or mistranslated version of Marson. However, as it isn't possible to search for MMN Marson without a surname, I am struggling to find the potential missing entry. Yes, I appreciate that one of the couples may have miscounted. But, does anyone have any suggestions regarding searching for a possible misheard or mistranscribed variant of the Wilkcockson surname? I should perhaps add that only those children that survived beyond infancy appear to have been baptised, so I cannot use baptism records nor in turn burials.

Maybe they counted a child that was stillborn or died soon after birth

Have you checked deaths on freebmd for children up to aged 10

What about those that are on earlier census that don’t show on later ones , they could have passed between census

There’s loads of young deaths between 1879 and 1911 on freebmd

It’s will be a trawl but worth cross checking back to the gro site to see which ones were mmn Marson at birth

Thomas's children in censuses:

Mary Jane 1876
Amy Hannah 1877
Elizabeth Ann 1879
Samuel 1882 (died 1967)
Herbert 1890 (died 1891)
Alice 1889 - per 1901 census - wrong YOB
Alice 1895 - per 1911 census

William's children from censuses:

Rosannah 1882 (died 1974)
Charlotte 1884 (died 1960)
Samuel 1886
Henry 1888



Other Wilcockson/Marson births;

Arthur 1881 - died 1881
Thomas 1881 - died 1881 (twin of Arthur. EDIT: No, not a twin)
Eliza 1886 - died 1887 ?
Ellen 1885 - died 1885
Harriet 1884 - died 1884
James 1888 - died 1888
Bertha 1892 - died 1892
Joseph 1893 - died 1893
Joseph 1889 (?? mms Mason) - died 1890
William 1891 - died 1891
Flory 1896 - died 1896
Joseph 1898 - died 1899


That's 13 deaths before 1911 (including Herbert on 1891 census).

One more to find!
But possibly a stillbirth, as Shirley suggests.

Thanks for the suggestions, there is only one child that appears on one census but not later ones, the other children I've found both birth & death regns for mainly died before reaching their first birthday, in many cases the same quarter they were born. I'm not quite clear what the suggestion is with young deaths, are you suggesting tracing all the young deaths back to the GRO birth index, irrespective of surname? My first thought is that a birth registration may not have been recorded under the same names as a death, a death could have been recorded correctly and transcribed correctly, in such a case searching for the incorrectly recorded birth regn is not going to produce any result. A birth regn will only match up with a death regn if both have been recorded under the same names, or at the very least close variations.

ArgyllGran - I have the same kids as you and same deaths. However, I don't think Thomas is the twin of Arthur, the birth were not registered at the same time . one is Q1, the other Q2. I appreciate that I'd need sight of the birth cert for one of these to sort out who the mother was.

Living at Stoneyford. Father a Miner.
Parish of Ironville with Codnor Park

View Record Name Baptism Date Baptism Place Parents View Images

Joseph Wilcoxson
17 Mar 1889 Ironville
Thomas, Susan

Mary Jane Wilcoxson
17 Mar 1889 Ironville
Thomas, Susan

Samuel Wilcoxson
17 Mar 1889 Ironville
Thomas, Susan

Herbert Wilcoxson
13 Jul 1890 Ironville
Thomas, Susan

Alice Wilcockson
29 Apr 1895 Ironville
Thomas, Susan

Some of the above have also been transcribed as Wilcock

Again show as resident at Stoneyford

Samuell Wilcoxson
17 Mar 1889 Ironville
William, Martha

Charlotte Wilcoxson
17 Mar 1889 Ironville
William, Martha

Henry Wilcoxson
17 Mar 1889 Ironville
William, Martha

Roseannah Wilcoxson
17 Mar 1889 Ironville
William, Martha


Possibility of a child born to one or other of the couples before marriage and counted in?

They seem to have baptised in a big batch on the whole so any number could have slipped through the net.

Both ladies married very young, 14 nd 15, so unlikely to be any births prior to marriage. The above baptisms do I suspect miss a couple of children that were alive in 1889 of Thomas & Susan. These families and various others related to them do seem to have children baptised in batches, the Longdon's appearing in the register between the batches of Wilcocksons are those of another sister and her husband. Alice is baptised later on her own, but there are related children baptised at the same time. My conclusion is that this habit of "batch baptisms" meant that those children who died in infancy, did so before they had been baptised

I expect it you'd had about 15 or 16 children it would be easy to lose count!

ArgyllGran, I guess so, I've several other cases with couples who had this sort of numbers fo kids, where I just haven't been able match up the 1911 numbers. There is also the issue of misunderstanding the question and including still births, or indeed of not registering births/deaths where a child survived only a short time. In another forum some suggested some people thought they didn't need to separately register a birth and a death in such circumstances. With these 2 couples they do seem to have registered births and deaths. Now the other issue I have is sorting out for some of these births is which ones relate to which couple, lack of baptisms doesn't help. I don't think I can do it without a few birth certs.

Mary Jane Wilcockson
England and Wales Census, 1881

Name:
Mary Jane Wilcockson
Event Type:
Census
Event Date:
1881
Event Place:
Codnor (Derby), Nottinghamshire, England
Registration District:
Basford
Gender:
Female
Age:
5
Marital Status (Original):
Single
Relationship to Head of Household:
Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated):
1876
Birthplace:
Stoneyford, Derbyshire, England
Page Number:
6
Registration Number:
RG11
Piece/Folio:
3320/40
Affiliate Record Type:
Household
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Thomas Wilcockson Head Male 30 Stoneyford, Derbyshire, England
Susan Wilcockson Wife Female 24 Thurgaton, Nottinghamshire, England
Mary Jane Wilcockson Daughter Female 5 Stoneyford, Derbyshire, England