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Hi, I feel like a right muppet (potentially),

I have gone and trusted a "hint" far too easily on Ancestry. It's been suggested that her Mother was Elizabeth Round and Father, Joel Townsend. So, i've worked on tracking the Townsend family descendants for quite a while now and put in a lot of work. Still, at least someone has a Townsend map!

Having revisited the census records, I can't make head nor tail of who her parents were.

For a start, if her Father was a Townsend, she should have the Surname Townsend. So, by this logic, her Father would be a Round.

In the 1841 census, there is John aged 49, Sarah aged 46 (under the Surname Rownd as opposed to Round), Harriet's role is not specified but she is aged 3;

In the 1851 census, she is listed as a "Visitor" aged 12 with the Morgan family.

In the 1861 census, she is aged 21 and living with John and Sarah again.

By the 1871 census she is married into the Baileys (Charles Wesley Bailey).

There is a John Round and Sarah Martin marriage in Clifton Upon Dunsmore on 18 October 1816.

However, one thing I did check to cross reference was my Ancestry.com DNA results of which there is a small amount of Townsend blood! So I do rather wonder where they actually fit in.

This is what i've ended up with on my Ancestry family tree (Screenshot) https://snipboard.io/4MxWeN.jpg

Thanks ever so much!

Edit - here's a contradictory birth record which is probably why Ancestry gave me the hint in the first place https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=9841&h=133316635&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=QOT22466&_phstart=successSource

In case you can't view it - here is a screenshot of that contradiction:

https://snipboard.io/cCN4Ju.jpg

????
no father named

Baptism entry While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
County Warwickshire
Place Newbold on Avon
Church name St Botolph
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 65
Baptism date 30 Dec 1838
Person forename Harriett
Person sex F
Mother forename Elizabeth
Mother surname ROUND
Person abode Long Lawford
Father occupation Servant
Transcribed by Ken Davies
File line number 874

Marriage entry While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
County Warwickshire
Place Newbold on Avon
Church name St Botolph
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 28
Marriage date 21 Nov 1839
Groom forename Joel
Groom surname TOWNSEND
Groom age full age
Groom parish Long Lawford
Groom condition Bachelor
Groom occupation Servant
Bride forename Elizabeth
Bride surname ROUND
Bride age full age
Bride parish Long Lawford
Bride condition Spinster
Bride occupation Servant
Groom father forename William
Groom father surname TOWNSEND
Groom father occupation Labourer
Bride father forename John
Bride father surname ROUND
Bride father occupation Labourer
Witness1 William INGRAM
Witness2 Ann ROUND
Notes She signed X
Transcribed by Ken Davies
File line number 543

She was illegitimate - simples! as the meerkats say.

You'll never know who her father was, I'm afraid

Cheers for this you lot - as kind as ever! yeah i've just seen this baptism record (apologies I updated the original message after you posted these - it's a shame you have to refresh the page when there is replies so quickly. BUT the Census does not add up even though you have come to the same conclusion as me - please would you also look at my family tree screenshot to (Harriot/Harriet is in black) - thanks :) - You will see what I mean about this Townsend/Round mixup :)

Thank you.

Oh, i've also saw a record of her under Collerson-Rounds as well although i'm not sure where this was now!

Census Year County Place Civil Parish Piece Enumeration District Folio Page House Number House or Street Name
1841 Warwickshire (WAR) Rugby Newbold Upon Avon 1137 8 3 1 Long Lawford
Surname Forenames Sex Age Occupation Birth County Notes
ROUND John M 49 Ag Lab WAR
ROUND Sarah F 46 WAR
ROUND John M 14 WAR
ROUND Emma F 12 WAR
ROUND Eliza F 10 WAR
ROUND Fanny F 7 WAR
ROUND Harriet F 3 WAR xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Abby/SAFC so you have found a census record that backs up the way I have my family tree currently? But there seems to be contradictory census records too (as above), how would you call this?

Thanks :)

????
Marriage entry While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
County Staffordshire
Place Tipton
Church name St Martin
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 695
Marriage date 27 Jul 1829
Groom forename John
Groom surname ROUND
Groom condition bachelor
Groom abode Tipton
Bride forename Sarah
Bride surname TOWNSHEND
Bride condition spinster
Bride abode Tipton
Witness1 Ezekiel ROUND
Witness2 John JONES
Notes Groom, bride and witness 1 sign X
Transcribed by Dale Braden
File line number 497

Oops ignore that last message please!

????

Baptism entry While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
County Warwickshire
Place Newbold on Avon
Church name St Botolph
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 134
Baptism date 14 Sep 1817
Person forename Elizabeth
Person sex F
Father forename John
Mother forename Sarah
Father surname ROUND
Person abode Long Lawford
Father occupation Labourer
Transcribed by Ken Davies
File line number 134

Can you please hold off with the alternative census records - it's not that I haven't found the right ones - I don't mean that all rudely, it's just distracting from the main issue. Staffordshire is miles out of Long Lawford btw - Long Lawford is Rugby, Warwickshire with Leicester and Northamptonshire and the city of Coventry being around the borders. I really do appreciate EVERYBODY'S help though :-)

To summarise per my OP and to morph my other finding (after the OP and contained within the comments) together:

1) Please would you view the screenshot of my family tree to see how I currently have the Rounds and the Townsends in context with Harriot laid out:

That screenshot is here: https://snipboard.io/4MxWeN.jpg

2) The census records are not matching up per my original post - the census record shared here is that which i've posted in my OP and highlights the issue itself.

3) Then we have Harriot Round's baptism in Newbold Upon Avon (Long Lawford and Newbold are the same area) with Mother Elizabeth https://snipboard.io/cCN4Ju.jpg - yes, Joel or any Dad is not listed on the baptism - is it not a bit of a conclusion to jump to to assume that she was born illegitmately? Is there not a million other explanations?

4) Whether or not Harriot is born ilegitmately is neither here nor there is any event as the census details the Mother as Sarah and not Elizabeth (or at least she then doesn't live with her Mother at the age of 3 which is way more than odd?

Abby/SAFC found the baptism record just before me - good spot there!

I hope this has bought things together a bit - absolutely no offence meant, text always appears blunt. If you read it like that, please realise it wasn't.

Many thanks again.

*****Please bear in mind I share DNA with the Townsends*******

Could this be useful:

England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
View Record
NameCharles Wesley BaileyGenderMaleMarriage Date30 May 1870Marriage PlaceSaint George,Leicester,Leicester,EnglandSpouseHarriet Collerson RoundsFHL Film Number870051Household Members
NameAge
Name
Charles Wesley Bailey
Name
Harriet Collerson Rounds

Early Collerson births: https://snipboard.io/23bw7m.jpg

Harriet Bailey's death in Norfolk (same county as those in screenshot above - i.e. Freebridge Lynn) https://snipboard.io/pu5AXy.jpg

You failed to mention that in 1861 she is described as the GRANDDAUGHTER OF John Round, although her stated age (21) does not tally with a late 1838 baptism

You refer to her marriage - did she name a father?

I don't know if you've got this - I haven't read all your postings

Name: Elizabeth Round
Baptism Date: 14 Sep 1817
Baptism Place: Newbold on Avon, Warwickshire, England
Parish: Newbold on Avon
Father: John Round
Mother: Sarah Round

Name: Elizabeth Round
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage or Bann Date: 21 Nov 1839
Marriage or Bann Place: Newbold on Avon, Warwickshire, England
Parish: Newbold on Avon
Spouse: Joel Townsend
Father: John Round

It STILL means that Harriet's father will for ever remain 'unknown'

Common sense dictates that if Townsend had been her father, she would have lived with him and her mother

Hi Erika, yes, but she didn't live with her Mother either from what i've seen.. I would have thought Joel would have took her under his wing as part of getting together with Elizabeth?

Obviously she didn't live with her mother - as I said.

Taking on another man's child was a rare occurrence in those days - illegitimacy was shameful, unlike nowadays. You can't translate today's values to the early 19th century

Don't try to manipulate facts to fit what you hope for

Harriet married as ROUND

Hang on Erika, who’s suggesting that, I’m just testing the weight of the argument either way. I’ve got a whole new interesting Round and Martin journey to go on :)