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A bit of a family mystery and I'm hoping someone has access to Irish records. I have been contacted by a 3rd Cousin who wants to explore our Irish roots further.

My Great, Great Grandparents Ellen Kane and George Waters were bother born in Ireland Ellen circa 1835 and George circa 1834. In the 1851 English Census they are in Liverpool, George and family (his father John), both give their place of birth as Ireland and the household have a servant who is registered as Helen Cain also from Ireland.

Two and a half years years later 7th August 1853, George Waters marries a heavily pregnant Ellen Kane (Helen Cain I believe from 1851) and my Great Grandma Ellen Waters was born. They go on to have at least six children that I know off.

On later Census 1901 and 1911, by which time she is living with daughter Mary Ann and her husband William Rawlinson , Ellen Waters née Kane has Liverpool, Lancs as her place of birth, I believe that to be a wrong entry and Ireland is where she hails from

Can anyone help me trace these Irish roots with as much info as possible about Ellen Kane (father possibly Richard mother unknown) and George Waters (father John mother possibly Eleanor (NOT SURE).

Wedding records for their parents, any brothers and sisters? Even if we could narrow down what part of Ireland they hail from would be a help.

Fingers crossed and trusting in the excellent help of you good folk out there.

Thanks.

Have you tried looking here

https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/

Thanks!

Ellen Kane
Ireland Births and Baptisms, 1620-1881
Name:
Ellen Kane
Gender:
Female
Christening Date:
18 Feb 1836
Christening Place:
ROMAN CATHOLIC,CURROW,KERRY,IRELAND
Father's Name:
Thomas Kane
Mother's Name:
Cath. Coffee

?????
Name: Ellen Kane
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 7 Aug 1853
Marriage Place: St. Simon'S, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Richard Kane
Spouse: George Waters
FHL Film Number: 1656675
Reference ID: item 5 p 84

England and Wales Census, 1851
Name:
George Waters
Event Type:
Census
Event Date:
1851
Event Place:
Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Registration District:
Liverpool
Residence Note:
Park Lane
Gender:
Male
Age:
17
Marital Status:
Unmarried
Occupation:
Ship Joiner
Relationship to Head of Household:
Son
Birth Year (Estimated):
1834
Birthplace:
Ireland
Page Number:
5
Registration Number:
HO107
Piece/Folio:
2181 / 226
Affiliate Record Type:
Household
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Waters Head Male 41 Ireland
George Waters Son Male 17 Ireland
James Waters Son Male 15 Ireland
Elizabeth Ann Waters Daughter Female 12 Ireland
Matilda Waters Daughter Female 9 Liverpool,
Jane Waters Daughter Female 10 Ireland
Robert Waters Son Male 2 Liverpool,
Helen Cain Servant Female 16 Ireland

Various spellings of surname

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
WATERS, ELLEN CAIN
GRO Reference: 1853 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 133

WATERS, SAMUEL KAINE
GRO Reference: 1872 S Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 267

-----------------------------
Also saying from Liverpool in 1881

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
41, House Byles Street, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Ellen Waters Head Widow Female 46 1835 Charwoman Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Thomas Waters Son Single Male 13 1868 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Samuel Waters Son Single Male 9 1872 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England

could this be the father

Name: Jno Waters
Baptism Date: 28 Dec 1805
Baptism Place: Ballinakill, Galway, Ireland
Father: George Waters
Mother: Anne Machey

brother

Name: Robert Waters
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 5 Sep 1849
Baptism Place: St. Barnabas' Church, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: John Waters
Mother: Eleanor
FHL Film Number: 2147909
Reference ID: fn 36

1871 - all born Liverpool

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Court, Toxteth Park, West Derby, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Waters Head - Male 42 1829 - Lancashire, England
Ellen Waters Wife - Female 44 1827 - Lancashire, England
Thomas Waters Son - Male 2 1869 - Lancashire, England
Ellen Waters Daughter - Female 17 1854 - Lancashire, England
John Waters Son - Male 15 1856 - Lancashire, England
George Waters Son - Male 13 1858 - Lancashire, England
Richard Waters Son - Male 12 1859 - Lancashire, England
Mary J Waters Daughter - Female 8 1863 - Lancashire, England

------------
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
WATERS, ELLEN CAIN
GRO Reference: 1853 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 133

WATERS, GEORGE KANE
GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 156

WATTERS, RICHARD CAIN
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 119

matilda from 1851 census
Matilda
Last name Waters
Age Minor
Marital status Spinster
Year 1863
Marriage year 1863
Marriage date 24 May 1863
Place Liverpool, Our Lady and St Nicholas
Denomination Church Of England
Diocese Liverpool
Residence Grafton ST
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Waters
Father's occupation Ship Joiner
Spouse's first name(s) Henry
Spouse's last name Threlfall
Spouse's age Minor
Spouse's occupation Shipwright
Spouse's marital status Bachelor
Spouse's residence Brownlow St
Spouse's father's first name(s) John
Spouse's father's last name Threlfall
Spouse's father's occupation Shipwright
Witness 1 Thomas Williams
Witness 2 Mary Ellen Williams
County Lancashire
Country England
Archive
Liverpool Record Office

As the son Robert was born in Liverpool 1848/9, the mother must have been alive

Could either of these be her death?

WATERS, ELEANOR 35
GRO Reference: 1849 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20 Page 780

WATERS, MATILDA 32
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20 Page 291

Get the cert for address and informant's details

FH research has to be backed up by the purchase of documents if you wish it to be accurate

?????????

Name: Robert Waters
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 5 Sep 1849
Baptism Place: St. Barnabas' Church, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: John Waters......Occ: JOINER
Mother: Eleanor
FHL Film Number: 2147909
Reference ID: fn 36
Address: New Hall Street

Eleanor
Last name Waters
Age 35
Birth year 1814
Death year -
Burial year 1849
Burial date 19 Aug 1849
Burial place Liverpool, St Mary's Cemetery
Denomination Church Of England
Diocese Liverpool
Residence Newhale ST
County Lancashire
Country England
Archive
Liverpool Record Office
Archive reference 283-MRY-4-15
Register type Burials
Register year range 1849-1849
Record set Lancashire Burials

For INFO 1851 showing birthplaces and address


Park Lane, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John Waters Head Widower Male 41 1810 Ship Joiner Ireland
George Waters Son Unmarried Male 17 1834 Ship Joiner Ireland
James Waters Son Unmarried Male 15 1836 Unemployed Ireland
Elizabeth Ann Waters Daughter Unmarried Female 12 1839 Scholar Ireland
Matilda Waters Daughter Unmarried Female 9 1842 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Jane Waters Daughter Unmarried Female 10 1841 Scholar Ireland
Robert Waters Son Unmarried Male 2 1849 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Helen Cain Servant Unmarried Female 16 1835 House Servant Ireland

From the marriage record, Ellen's father, Richard was a Currier by trade.

yet he was a ships joiner in1851 and matilda's marriage in1863 hmmm

That was John Waters - not Ellens father!

????

WATERS, ROBERT BAILEY
GRO Reference: 1849 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20 Page 430


WATERS, MATILDA BAILEY
GRO Reference: 1844 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20 Page 505