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I am at a complete loss with this chap's family so need help please.

He appears on the 1911 census with:

Father William Charles age 46 married occ mason b. Freshford, Somerset
Mother transcribed initials S J age 37 b. Tredegar (New Tredegar)
Brother transcribed Winnington age 5 b. Tredegar (New Tredegar)

He married Margery Dunn and died 1978 in Pontypool. Margery died also in Pontypool in 1994.

That's William St.John tidied up.

1939 register William Charles' DOB stated as 13 Feb 1859 which makes the 1911 census DOB wrong by 7 years.
Wife on the 1939 register Jane A DOB 01 Oct 1873, that fits the 1911 census but Initials don't match.


So my problems are: Who is Winnington?
What is William Charles' correct DOB
Who did he marry because the initials S J do not help me.
In 1955 there is a probate record for Jane Alma Ellway Newman (widow) who leaves her estate to William St.John Newman (schoolteacher) and Stuart Samuel Newman (chemical process worker). Could this be the mysterious S J on the 1911 census?

All help gratefully received, thanks

Sue

for our reference:

Wm Charles Newman
in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: Wm Charles Newman
Age in 1911: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Freshford, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Gelligaer
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 28 Birch Grove Tirphil Glam
Marital status: Married
Years Married: 10
Estimated Marriage Year: 1901
Occupation: Mason
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Registration District Number: 590
Sub-registration district: Gelligaer
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Household schedule number: 264
Piece: 32406
Household Members:
Name Age
Wm Charles Newman 46
S J Newman 37 - Tredegar
W F J Newman 8 - Tredegar
Winnington Newman 5 - New Tredegar
Alan Arthur 27 - visitor
Eva Arthur 24 - visitor
Neil Arthur 2 - visitor

Birth:

NEWMAN, STUART SAMUEL WINNINGTON mms ELLWAY
GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in BEDWELLTY Volume 11A Page 107


NEWMAN, WILLIAM ST JOHN mms ELLWAY
GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in BEDWELLTY Volume 11A Page 142

This is the only Newman / Ellway marriage I can see:

Marriages Mar 1902 (>99%)
Ellway Alma Bedwelty 11a 112
Ellway Alma Bedwelty 11a 112
Newman Charles Bedwelty 11a 112

This fits with the 1955 probate record you mention.


1911 census says married 10 years. I suppose that's near enough. The marriage might have been at the end of 1901.

I think this is Alma / SJ's birth:

ELLWAY, SARAH JANE ALMA mms TAYLOR
GRO Reference: 1873 D Quarter in BEDWELLTY Volume 11A Page 118

Great transcription on Ancestry!

Sarah Jane Ethvong
in the 1891 Wales Census
Name: Sarah Jane Ethvong
[Sarah Jane Ellway]
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Thomas Ethvong
Mother's name: Esther Ann Ethvong
Gender: Female
Where born: Tredegar, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Bedwellty
Ecclesiastical parish: Tredegar
Town: Tredegar
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Bedwellty
Sub registration district: Tredegar
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Piece: 4356
Folio: 133
Page Number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Ethvong 45
Esther Ann Ethvong 43
Sarah Jane Ethvong 17
Thomas R Ethvong 14
Frederick Jas Ethvong 11
Samuel Ethvong 9
Gertrude M Ethvong 7
David Jno Ethvong 5
William Hy Ethvong 3

William Charles Newman
in the Somerset, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1914
Name: William Charles Newman
Baptism Date: 20 Mar 1856
Baptism Place: Freshford, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: Freshford
Father: John Newman
Mother: Mary Anne Newman

Looks like he was married before:

William Charles Newman
in the Somerset, England, Marriage Registers, Bonds and Allegations, 1754-1914
Name: William Charles Newman
Gender: Male
Age: 24
Birth Year: abt 1856
Marriage or Bann Date: 8 Jun 1880
Marriage Place: Horrington (East), Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: Horrington
Father: John Newman
Spouse: Mary Elizabeth Ward


William Newman
in the 1891 Wales Census
Name: William Newman
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth Newman
Gender: Male
Where born: Fishford, Somerset, England
[Freshford, Somerset, England]
Civil Parish: Bedwellty
Ecclesiastical parish: Tredegar
Town: Tredegar
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Bedwellty
Sub registration district: Tredegar
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors:
Piece: 4355
Folio: 66
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
William Newman 32
Elizabeth Newman 30 - South Petherton, Somerset
Earnest Newman 5
William Newman 2


In 1901 he's stated as married - but no wife with him:

William Newman
in the 1901 Wales Census
Name: William Newman
Age in 1901: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Freshford, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Tredegar
Town: Bedwellty Pits
Ecclesiastical parish: Tredegar St George
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Bedwellty
Sub-registration district: Tredegar
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 18
Piece: 4938
Folio: 129
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
William Newman 39
Florence A Plunkett 29 - servant
Gordon Plunkett 4 - nephew


Elizabeth's with a new partner in 1901:

Elizabeth Tiley
in the 1901 Wales Census
Name: Elizabeth Tiley
Age in 1901: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation: Wife
Spouse: Benjamin Tiley
Gender: Female
Where born: South Petherton, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Pontypridd
Town: Hopkinstown
Ecclesiastical parish: Llanwonno
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Llanwonno
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 122
Piece: 5002
Folio: 155
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
Benjamin Tiley 40
Elizabeth Tiley 38
Henry Newman 19
Charles Newman 16
William Newman 12
Albert Newman 5
Edith Tiley Under 1 Month


TILEY, EDITH mms WARE
GRO Reference: 1901 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 550


Other version of the marriage gives Elizabeth's name as Ware, rather than Ward:

William Charles Newman
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: William Charles Newman
Registration Year: 1880
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Wells
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 5c
Page: 817
Records on Page:
Name
William Charles Newman
Mary Elizabeth Ware

Benjamin Tiley
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Benjamin Tiley
Registration Year: 1899
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Pontypridd
Inferred County: Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 939
Records on Page:
Name
Benjamin Tiley
Mary Elizabeth Ware

Mary E Liley
in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: Mary E Liley
[Mary E Tiley]
Age in 1911: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: South Petherton, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Pontypridd
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 12 Brook Street Treforest Pontypridd
Marital status: Married
Years Married: 11
Estimated Marriage Year: 1900
Registration district: Pontypridd
Registration District Number: 589
Sub-registration district: Llantrisant
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Household schedule number: 285
Piece: 32324
Household Members:
Name Age
Benjamin Liley 50
Mary E Liley 48
William Newman 22
Albert Newman 15



I wonder if both William and Elizabeth remarried bigamously ??

Mary E Newman
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Mary E Newman
Death Age: 74
Birth Date: abt 1864
Registration Date: Oct 1938
[Nov 1938]
[Dec 1938]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Pontypridd
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 497




Elizabeth Tiley
in the British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
Name: Elizabeth Tiley
Document Year: 1914
Relationship to Soldier: Mother
Form Title: Military History Sheet
Other Records:
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Albert Edward Newman Self (Head)
Elizabeth Tiley Mother

Wow Gran, if you were nearer I'd make you a well deserved special coffee.

Thanks so much, Mr. Daff will be delighted, he's working on the village history for this family and threw me the problem at 1 a.m. (yes 1 a.m.)

I'm off to update him

Sue x

Henry (child in 1901 census):

NEWMAN, JOHN HENRY mms WARR
GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in WELLS Volume 05C Page 517


Earnest in 1891 - Charles in 1901:

NEWMAN, ERNEST CHARLES mms WARR
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in CLUTTON Volume 05C Page 561


Albert in 1901 census;

NEWMAN, ALBERT JAMES mms WARR
GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in CHIPPING NORTON Volume 03A Page 1017




The soldier Albert Edward:

NEWMAN, ALBERT ms WARR
GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in BEDWELLTY Volume 11A Page 120


Hmmm - I wonder if I'm getting mixed up with possibly two Mary Elizabeth Warr/Ware/Ward s??? both born in South Petherton ??

Births Sep 1861 (>99%)
WARR Mary Elizabeth Yeovil 5c 518

??
Births Jun 1859 (>99%)
Warr Mary Eliza Yeovil 5c 566

But there seems to be only one on censuses:

Mary E Warr
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Mary E Warr
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: 1862
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: South Petherton Somerset England
Civil Parish: South Petherton
Town: Stratton
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Yeovil
Sub-registration district: South Petherton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 125
Piece: 2412
Folio: 16
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Warr 79
Julia Warr 33
Mary E Warr 9
Thomas Warr 1

It's just that the children's names don't seem to quite match up on 1891 and 1901. and John Henry, for instance, isn't on the 1891 census - at least not with William and Elizabeth.

Ah, here's John Henry:

John H Newman
in the 1891 England Census
Name: John H Newman
Gender: Male
Age: 9
Relationship: Nephew
Birth Year: 1882
Birth Place: Wells, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Binegar
Ecclesiastical parish: Binegar
Residence Place: Binegar, Binegar, Somerset, England
Registration district: Shepton Mallet
Sub registration district: Shepton Mallet
ED, Institution or Vessel: 18
Neighbors:
Piece: 1911
Folio: 76
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Holbrook 58
Caroline Holbrook 60
John H Newman 9


His baptism:

John Henry Newman
in the Somerset, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1914
Name: John Henry Newman
Baptism Date: 16 Apr 1882
Baptism Place: Wells St Thomas, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: St Thomas East Wells
Father: William Charles Newman
Mother: Mary Elizabeth Newman


Yes, I think there's only one Mary Elizabeth Warr, after all - the one born Sept 1861..

Thanks Gran, just on the phone with Mr Daff now

x

Marriage entry While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
County Somerset
Place East Horrington
Church name St John the Evangelist
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 117
Marriage date 08 Jun 1880
Groom forename William Charles
Groom surname NEWMAN
Groom age 24
Groom condition bachelor
Groom occupation Attendant at the County Lunatic Asylum
Groom abode East Horrington
Bride forename Mary Elizabeth
Bride surname WARE
Bride age 20
Bride condition spinster
Bride abode East Horrington
Groom father forename John
Groom father surname NEWMAN
Groom father occupation Gardener
Bride father forename William
Bride father surname WARE
Bride father occupation Carpenter
Witness1 Henry HOLBROOK
Witness2 Caroline HOLBROOK
Notes Banns
Transcribed by Yvonne Scrivener
File line number 116

There were 2 Mary Eliza/beth Warrs AG. The first one sadly didn't survive very long.

Name: Age at Death (in years):
WARR, MARY ELIZA 0
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in YEOVIL Volume 05C Page 348

Thanks safc and alviegal, we are hoping that we can locate the family in order to pass on the information gathered all as part of the history of our village.

Sue x

Do you mean you're trying to find living relatives of the Newman family?


Stuart S W Newman
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Stuart S W Newman
Registration Date: Jan 1964
[Feb 1964]
[Mar 1964]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Newport
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Spouse: Anne E Knight
Volume Number: 8c
Page Number: 534


Stuart Samuel W Newman
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Stuart Samuel W Newman
Death Age: 73
Birth Date: 25 May 1906
Registration Date: Jul 1979
[Aug 1979]
[Sep 1979]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Newport
Inferred County: Gwent
Volume: 28
Page: 0709

I don't know if they had children - none in Newport, anyway. Anne would have had to be considerably younger than Stuart.

Gran, we are both members of a number of social groups connected to both our village and the Valleys in general.

Mr. Daff researches all the Military records (I do the social history) and then reports of as many of the historic family as can be found are written up. The military records are thoroughly researched by Mr. Daff and includes all written history he can find together with a time line using war diaries, Red Cross records and newspaper reports.

Once these posts go live any number of people see a link to their familiy and have the reports to keep for themselves. They also serve to keep the sacrifices made during WW1 and some WW2 in the public domain.

Because the forum is open to a few thousand members many find they are related without knowing it prior to the family line(s) being published. The military records are also shared with the associated regiment's history, they also complete the sometimes scant information on war memorials records.

It's amazing what interest those posts and mine (detailing tragic/happy events in the village) generate.

They also serve to jog people's memories, prompt questions and bring estranged family and friends together again.

Sue x

Sounds like a very interesting and useful project, Sue!