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Hello, I wonder if anyone can help me sort out these two Ree families, which I believe are my ancestors (Rae family from Muiravonside)

Alexander Ree was born to John Ree and Marrie (?Mary) Gray and baptised on 15.2.1708

John Ree was born to John Ree and Katherina Gray and baptised on 6.11.1709

I can't work out if John and Alexander were brothers (and Marrie actually also goes by Katherina) or if perhaps they were half-brothers and JOhn married Katherina very quickly after losing Marrie).

The only other information I can find is that the witness to the baptism of Alexander Ree was Alexander Hoog & James Ree. The witness to the baptism of John Ree was Alexander Hoog and Patrick Ree..

I cannot find any marriage of John Ree to a Marrie or a Katherina Gray on Scotlandspeople and struggling to find the family on ancestry or familysearch

Many thanks in advance for any ideas

Update: I have found a record of the marriage of John Ree (spelt Rea) to Katherina Gray 27 November 1705.

Still trying to working out the familiies

On which site did you find the marriage?

Hi ErikaH,

I found the marriage documentation on ScotlandsPeople and downloaded the original. Frustratingly I can't find any record of John Ree to Marrie Gray.

The mystery continues . . .

Alexander Hoog and James Ree were the witnesses to Katherina Gray and John Ree's marriage (same witnesses for the birth of John Ree their son)

Not helping with your original question but interesting nonetheless.

Scotland, Antenuptial Relationship Index 1661-1780

Katharine
Last name Gray
Sex Female
Year 1705
Dates Rebuked: 16 Sep 1705.
Place Muiravonside
Other person's first name John
Other person's last name Rae Or Roe
Other person's dates
Rebuked: 16 Sep 1705.
County Stirlingshire
Country Scotland
Record set Scotland, Antenuptial Relationship Index 1661-1780
Category Churches & religion
Subcategory Religious Ceremonies


From fmp

Scotland, Antenuptial Relationship Index 1661-1780
Do you have ancestors that were members of the Church of Scotland? Search over 31,000 antenuptial records from Kirk Sessions registers to find out if there were any family members who were summoned to the ministers and elders of the church to deny or confess their sin as a child had been conceived out of wedlock

In these cases of 'antenuptial fornication', it was the mother of the child who would be summoned first, they would be sternly rebuked and persuaded to name the father of the child if he was not an obvious boyfriend. The father was then told of the accusation, summoned and would either appear or write, to deny or confess his sin. The session would summon the mother and father of the child back to subsequent meetings until the matter was resolved and the mother, or sometimes the couple, made some sort of reparation, often with the mother standing at the church door for 3 Sabbaths. When they had fully repented, and been pardoned, each was welcomed back into the church.

(Source: The Scottish Genealogy Society)



Antenuptial Fornication

Antenuptial fornication was a cause for major concern in Scottish churches, especially in the Victorian era, and Kirk Session minutes for every parish are full of details of those being hauled up in front of the minister and elders to answer for their sins. Generally, it was the woman who was summoned, usually once advanced pregnancy brought her sin to public knowledge. She was rebuked sternly, and persuaded to name her partner in sin, if this was not an obvious boyfriend. He too was then summoned, to repent of his sin, and to make some sort of reparation, or to offer support for the child, if he acknowledged it. If the putative father was reluctant to acknowledge paternity, and the Session were equally convinced that he was responsible, they would keep on summoning him back to subsequent meetings, to try to ‘persuade' him further! A married couple whose first child made a too-early appearance were also called to confess their sin retrospectively.

The system wasn't quite as gratuitously sanctimonious as it might seem ( although some elders do seem to have gone about their duties with an unholy zeal!) as it did generally ensure some acknowledged paternity for the child, and possibly some financial support for the mother, too.

One interesting feature of the records for the parish of Kilconquhar, Fife is that, where he was known, it seems generally to have been the man who was called to account – an early blow for equality, perhaps!

In many parishes, the couple were then asked to make some contribution to the Poor Fund, in atonement, and this is documented in the parish accounts.

http://bluethistlegenealogy.com/antenuptial.htm

Baptism of another child :

REA
JAMES
JOHN REA/CATHARINA GRAY FR23 (FR23)
M
06/01/1706
486/
10 30
Muiravonside

That is really interesting. Thanks.

It looks like John Ree & Marrie Gray's son was born between Katherina Gray/ John Ree's two children (James and John) so presumable Marrie is another woman, not Katherina by a different name.
I'm wondering if Marrie Gray is Katherina Gray's sister, but imagine two sister's both marrying John Ree. How confusing!

It is interesting that Katherina and John were married 2 months after they were rebuked by the church.

I have found a record of Alexander Hogue (Hoog) and Elisabeth Ree getting married in 1701 (Scotlands People). I wonder if Elisabeth Ree is a sister of one of the John Rees?

I fear it's one of those bits of infuriating family history that you'll never know about, simply because the records aren't there to be found, so far back.

I suspect you are right. But goodness it's a lot of fun trying to work out the puzzles.