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I was sure I had a thread on these two but I can't find it. I have all the information on them that I need but I'd just love to know the answer to one question. This is the gist of their story. John Roberts (b abt 1824 in Llangollen) and Betsy Horton (b 1834 in Runcorn, Cheshire). In 1851 census Betsy is living in Runcorn but no sign of John. Their first child was born in 1855. After a lot of searching it was discovered that John and Betsy did not marry until 1878 even though they had six children by then. Although they were living in St. Helens they went to Liverpool to get married, then moved back to St. Helens.
This is my question. They married in 1878 and John died in 1879. On his death certificate it states that he died of heart disease 1 year and anasarca 3 months. Since there seems to be no obvious reason why they suddenly decided to get married in 1878 I was wondering what the laws were back then regarding common law and whether this had anything to do with why they got married. Maybe he knew he didn't have long to live.
Any thoughts?

Have you got their marriage cert to see their marital status

Maybe one of them wasn’t free to marry before then

Probably married elsewhere for appearances sake as neighbours etc thought they were already married

The fact he died a year later is probably incidental


The story does seem familiar , think you did have a previous thread about them

View 1861 England Census
Name: Betsey Roberts
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: 1833
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: John Roberts
Gender: Female
Where born: Runcorn, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Eccleston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 292
Piece: 2751
Folio: 73
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
John Roberts 38
Betsey Roberts 28
Thomas Roberts 6
Mary Ann Roberts 4
John Roberts 1

The copy marriage cert is online pity we can’t copy and paste it over

But they were Batchelor and spinster


View Liverpool, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932
Name: Betsey Horton
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 44
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1834
Marriage Date: 8 Aug 1878
Marriage Place: Liverpool, St John, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool, St John' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: Henry Horton
Spouse: John Roberts
Save Cancel
Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Reference Number: 283 JOH/3/18


Think they just didn’t get around to marrying

Thanks Shirley. Yes, I do have the marriage certificate and it says they are bachelor and spinster and residence at the time of marriage was Mount Pleasant, Liverpool.
It just does seem so strange that they would choose to marry after being together for about 20 years and six children. Why would they even bother.

Have you checked for possible earlier marriages for either of them? My great grandfather was listed as a bachelor on his marriage to my great grandmother when, in fact, he was a widower.

I would look for John on the 1851 census. What was his occupation?

a maybe

1851
unmarrried
Name: John Roberts
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Relation: Brother-in-law
Gender: Male
Where born: Llangollen
Civil Parish or Township: Llangollen Fawr
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Corwen
Sub-registration district: Gwyddelwern
ED, institution, or vessel: 5h
Piece: 2509
Folio: 496
Page Number: 12
Household schedule number: 45
Household Members:
Name Age
David Evans 36 --- widow
John Roberts 26 --- unmarried --- oot and shoemaker
Catherine Williams 16

He was consistently a warehouse worker so don’t think that’s him

A boot and shoe repairer is a job you woukd usually keep as an occupation

I tend to agree with Shirley - he was a warehouseman in both 1861 and 1871 censuses.

Maybe …

1841 census - Llangollen
John Jones 1761
Thomas Roberts 1801
Margaret Roberts 1801
Margaret Roberts 1827
Robert Roberts 1831

No John, but his parents were Thomas and Margaret (Jones) and he had siblings, Ann, Margaret and Robert.

1851 census - Llangollen
Thomas Roberts 1801
Margaret Roberts 1799
John Roberts 1823 nailmaker
Robert Roberts 1832 shoemaker

I guess nailmaker to warehouseman is not that far fetched and brother Robert was a shoemaker.

Related previous threads about other members of the family:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1379953

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1377876