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A possibility may be she had a still born who she counted in number of children born and as one who had died

Thank you everyone for your help .......still no link but will keep looking thanks again ,

Re the 1879 Helme/Helme child mentioned by Erika -

HELME, ALICE ANN -
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 668


Marriages Mar 1903 (>99%)
Ellison William Preston 8e 779
Helm Alice Ann Preston 8e 779



Alice Ann Ellison
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Alice Ann Ellison
Age in 1911: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Civil Parish: Preston
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 89 St Georges Rd Preston Lancs
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Cotton Weaver
Registration district: Preston
Registration District Number: 476
Sub-registration district: North Preston
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Piece: 25287
Household Members:
Name Age
William Ellison 32
Alice Ann Ellison 32
Lena Ellison 7
Mary Ellison 6
Winifred Ellison 2



ELLISON, WINIFRED mms HELM
GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 532

ELLISON, MARY mms HELM
GRO Reference: 1905 M Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 552

ELLISON, HELENA mms HELM
GRO Reference: 1904 M Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 548


Alice Ann Ellison
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Alice Ann Ellison
Gender: Female
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 18 Dec 1878
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 1
Residence Place: Preston, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 65
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: NMAG
Registration district: 476/1.
Inferred Spouse: William Ellison
Household Members:
Name
William Ellison
Alice Ann Ellison


None of which throws any light on her parentage.

So far, I haven't spotted her in 1881 - 1901.

LANCS OPC shows these 5 baptisms 1885 +/- 5 years to a Charles and Sarah Boyle.

None showing 1895 +/- 5 years

There is however a marriage between a Charles Boyle and Sarah Rigby in Liverpool 1870 and they can be found in Toxteth on the 1881 census. GRO shows a Henry Boyle birth Q1 1880 mmn Rigby in West Derby and Toxteth RD

Baptism: 28 Mar 1880 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Henry Boyle - [Child] of Charles Boyle & Sarah
Born: 5 Jan 1880
Abode: Toxteth
Occupation: Carter
Baptised by: W. R. Duncan, Curate
Register: Baptisms 1880, Page 375, Entry 2994
Source: LDS Film 1656568


Baptism: 11 Sep 1881 St James, Preston, Lancashire, England
Ellen Boyle - [Child] of Charles Boyle & Sarah
Abode: 87 Hudson Street ................. (*** 1881 census address)
Occupation: Railway Clerk
Baptised by: Thos. B. Spencer Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1864 - 1922, Page 72, Entry 570
Source: Original register at Lancashire Archives


Baptism: 13 May 1883 St James, Preston, Lancashire, England
Charles Ernest Boyle - [Child] of Charles Boyle & Sarah
Abode: 87 Hudson Street
Occupation: Bookkeeper
Notes: [Out of date order]
Baptised by: Thos. B. Spencer Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1864 - 1922, Page 82, Entry 652
Source: Original register at Lancashire Archives


Baptism: 18 Mar 1888 St Luke, Southport, Lancashire, England
Albert Victor Boyle - [Child] of Charles Boyle & Sarah
Abode: 69 Sussex Rd. ............ *** 1911 address given by Charles for place of birth
Occupation: Accountant
Baptised by: W. H. Marsden
Register: Baptisms 1883 - 1897, Page 31, Entry 246
Source: LDS Film 1849661


Baptism: 23 Jun 1889 St Luke, Southport, Lancashire, England
Frederick Oscar Boyle - [Child] of Charles Boyle & Sarah
Abode: 69 Sussex Road
Occupation: Accountant
Baptised by: J. E. H___
Register: Baptisms 1883 - 1897, Page 40, Entry 313
Source: LDS Film 1849661
There were 5 matches for this search!

Yes this is them Charles was not living with them in 1911 as he was a naughty boy and had beat Sarah up a few times . So was not allowed in the family home . Yes Ellen died in 1888 . And I’ve found the 3 boys details but cannot find that missing baby . As quoted in 1911 5 born living 2 had died . Thank you for trying I guess it’s another brick wall .:) I

Are these the 2 boys?

1911 Census For England & Wales

21 Fedora Street West Derby Road Liverpool, West Derby, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
David Thomas Hughes Head Married Male 36 1875 Sailor At Sea
Elizabeth Ann Hughes Wife Married Female 35 1876 Nil Derbyshire Derby
Gertrude May Daughter - Female 7 1904 Nil Lanc West Derby Liverpool
Charles Ernest Boyle Visitor Single Male 27 1884 Sailor Lanc 69 Sussex Rd Southport

------------------------------------
1911 Census For England & Wales

Havelock Barracks Dilkusha Lucknow India, Overseas Military, Ships and Overseas Establishments

First name(s) Albert
Last name Boyle
Relationship -
Marital status Single
Sex Male
Age 25
Birth year 1886
Birth place Southport Lancashire
Occupation Soldier
House name -
House number -
Street -
Address Havelock Barracks Dilkusha Lucknow India
Parish -
County Overseas Military
Country Ships And Overseas Establishments
Archive reference RG14
Registration district number 641
Enumeration district 7
District number 7
Sub district number 13
Census reference RG14PN34988 RD641 SD13 ED7 SN9999
RG78 code number 0
Piece number 34988
Folio -
Page -

1911 census. The original shows, that whilst Sarah says she is married, she and Charles are living apart. She says married 31 years - 5 children born, 3 are still living and 2 have died.

Have you tracked down "children" Charles and Albert in 1911? Both were alive in 1901. Again husband Charles is not with the family.

1911 Census For England & Wales

7 Deepdale St Preston, Preston, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Sarah Boyle Head Married Female 51 1860 Cotton Weaver Preston Lancs
Fred Boyle Son Single Male 22 1889 Groom Southport Lancs

Only found the 4 obvious births, with a variant spelling for mmn for Charles

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
BOYLE, ELLEN HELME
GRO Reference: 1881 S Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 636

BOYLE, CHARLES ERNEST HELM
GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 655

BOYLE, ALBERT VICTOR HELME
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 826

BOYLE, FREDERICK OSCAR HELME
GRO Reference: 1889 J Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 806

-----------------------
?? Ellen's death.

Name: Age at Death (in years):
BOYLE, ELLEN 6
GRO Reference: 1888 J Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 468
_____________________

It's possible the 5th child was a stillbirth that wasn't registered or even a miscarriage that Sarah mistakenly thought of as a birth. Or as an earlier suggestion, a child born before marriage.

did ellen die she is not with family in 1891 census


Sarah Boyle
England and Wales Census, 1891
Name:
Sarah Boyle
Event Type:
Census
Event Date:
1891
County:
Lancashire
Parish:
Preston
Ecclesiastical Parish:
ST PAULS
Registration District:
Preston
Gender:
Female
Age:
31
Marital Status:
Married
Relationship to Head of Household:
Wife
Birth Year (Estimated):
1860
Birthplace:
Lancashire, England
Page Number:
13
Registration Number:
RG12
Piece/Folio:
3432/ 82
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Charles Boyle Head Male 33 Ireland
Sarah Boyle Wife Female 31 Lancashire, England
Charles E Boyle Son Male 7 Lancashire, England
Albert T Boyle Son Male 3 Southport, Lancashire, England
Frederick H Boyle Son Male 1 Lancashire, England
Mary Pearson Female 59 Cumberland, England

Sarah Boyle
England and Wales Census, 1881
Name:
Sarah Boyle
Event Type:
Census
Event Date:
1881
Event Place:
Preston, Lancashire, England
Registration District:
Preston
Residence Note:
Hudson St
Gender:
Female
Age:
21
Marital Status (Original):
Married
Occupation:
Cotton Weaver
Relationship to Head of Household:
Wife
Birth Year (Estimated):
1860
Birthplace:
Preston, Lancashire, England
Page Number:
39
Registration Number:
RG11
Piece/Folio:
4237/105
Affiliate Record Type:
Household
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Charles Boyle Head Male 22 Ireland
Sarah Boyle Wife Female 21 Preston, Lancashire, England

Sarah Boyle
England and Wales Census, 1901

Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Sarah Boyle Head Female 41 Preston, Lancashire
Charles Ernest Boyle Son Male 17 Preston, Lancashire
Albert Victor Boyle Son Male 13 Southport, Lancashire
Frederick Oscar Boyle Son Male 11 Southport, Lancashire

The question about number of children in 1911 was addressed to the woman

Don’t be inflexible in your thinking

Think the first child was Ellen b 1881 hence why they married in 1880

Sorry was 1860 typo error

It may be unconnected, but there is a Helme/Helme birth in the same area (Preston St John) in 1879

Just a thought..........

So not born 1960 ;-)

Have you tried Lancsbmd?

Or the GRO site?

Have you allowed for different spellings of MMN?

Hi can anyone help in helping me find the missing child of my great grandparents pleased . Sarah helme and Charles Boyle had 5 children (living ) then on the 19 11 census it said 5 children 3 alive 2 dead .the children I have are Ellen 1881-1888
Charles Ernest 1883 ,Albert victor 1888 and Frederick oscar 1889. All were born Preston or Southport . I’ve tried parish records ,census searched b m d can anyone help me on the right track to try find the missing child please
Thanks for any help :)