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Hi do you have access to Ancestry.com (or any other service that allows you to look at the original images?)

1. I've looked at John's Baptism Record and also the marriage record for his Father John and both have Katherine Colemans down as the Mother and Wife respectively. However, Katherine Colemans was not a human being! Katherine Colemans was an ancient church in Fenchurch in London that got demolished in 1920!

2. My John Spencer lived in Kingsbury Warwickshire and i'm trying to make the jump as to where this family go back to before his Father John (would you even agree that his Father was John?) The link before Kingsbury is certainly not local but there are a fair few options including Kent, Northamptonshire etc.

3. Having looked at the original images, the original images are not wrong, the transcriptions are. I'm struggling with reading the original images. I'm trying to extract as much from the original images as possible - anything at all it's all useful.

4. I am pretty sure from the image that John (Father) got married to a Henchman - Dorothea? in St Botolphs/St Katherine Coleman Parish and the Henchmans are a Barton Seagrave, Northamptonshire family with Humphrey Henchman being a particularly cool clergyman fitting in somewhere in that family (although I can't find how this Henchman marriage to John Spencer fits onto the Henchman tree) and the Henchman's are a very small family so maybe their surname is a corruption unless they are originally from America given so many links on the Henchman's family trees go back there?

5. Please would as many of you cast eyes over the original images for the John Spencer marrying Coleman image and John Spencer baptism image and get anything you can from them, I'm going to communicate this to around 30 - 40 people who still have Katherine Coleman as a living being and try and help as many as I can at the same time!

6. The link for Ancestry original image is here https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/1624/31281_a101260-00260/10056747?backurl=https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/87040941/person/330196817181/facts/citation/961001520987/edit/record

Thanks So Much and Kind Regards,

Beanie.

the bride was dorothie henchman
he was from catherine colemans

John
Last name Spencer
Name note -
Marriage year 1625
Marriage date 29 May 1625
Marriage place St Botolph Aldgate
Spouse's first name(s) Dorithie
Spouse's last name Henchman
Residence St. Botolph Aldgate, London, England
County London
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973

her father stephen henchman, by license

Legend - can we get this out really loud anyhow to help as many people as possible - so many are stuck with this :-)

Do you know also where they fit in on the Henchman tree - I did look at them and I couldn't find anything - they clearly go to Barton Seagrave, Northants and surrounding area. Thanks again for your deciphering!

i can't find a baptism for her

but on the link you posted son jeremiahs mother on baptism was kathryn

Jeremiah
Last name Spenser
Gender Male
Birth year -
Birth place -
Baptism year 1627
Baptism date 04 Feb 1627
Place -
County London
Country England
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Spenser
Mother's first name(s) Kathern

????
JEREM
Supplied first name Jerem
Last name SPENCER
Birth year -
Death year 1637
Burial year 1637
Church St Mary Somerset
Place LONDON
County London

sibling


John Spencer
Gender
Male
Christening Date
15 Jan 1637
Christening Date (Original)
15 JAN 1637
Christening Place
SAINT MARY SOMERSET,LONDON,LONDON,ENGLAND
Father's Name
John Spencer
Mother's Name
Katherine


Ezekiel Spencer
Gender
Male
Christening Date
16 Sep 1630
Christening Date (Original)
16 SEP 1630
Christening Place
SAINT MARY SOMERSET,LONDON,LONDON,ENGLAND
Father's Name
John Spencer
Mother's Name
Kathren

haven't found any childrren of john and dorothy

Maddie, thanks, so what are you saying here? Thanks. - It is ultimately the top of the Kingsbury Spencers and it's a case of finding out where they go back to.

are the baptims posted part of your tree ??

Hi Maddie, no, I have Dorithie Henchman marrying John Spencer of Kingsbury and so the line of descendants starts:

John Spencer born 1642 (Presumed to be their child) marrying Sarah Woodcock (She Doesn't fit very well either but she's widely regarded as the wife)

--------V-----------

Christopher Spencer 1667 - 1715 marrying Dorothy Jackson 1678 - 1723

------V---------

Christopher Spencer 1706 - 1783 marrying Mary Orton b.1710.

But yes, very stuck on this and I can't find any records to link everything together. The way this started was so many people had Katherine Colemans listed as the John Spencer Spouse - of course the correct transcription for this record is Dorithie Henchman as the Spouse.

I'm no good at replies by census data, I can view that anyway. Just a human response from people would be good. It's good to see Dorothia is now actually listed - this was through my reports to Ancestry.com as the correct transcription did not exist last week!

Thanks.

have you found the baptism of christopher 1667
can't see one on ancestry or fmp

thereis a tree onancestry but thereis no source document

Don't know if this is of interest to you. The link you provided above mentions Stoke Br****, Northants.

London Apprenticeship Abstracts, 1442-1850


First name(s) Stephen
Last name Henchman
Apprentice year 1626
Livery company Fishmonger
Henchman Joseph son of Stephen, Stoke Bruerne, Northamptonshire, gentleman to Mathew Pratt, 12 Nov 1621 , Fishmongers' Company
Birth county Northamptonshire
Birth country England
Record set London Apprenticeship Abstracts, 1442-1850
Category Education & work
Subcategory Apprentices
Collections from Great Britain, England

After 1621 there is written 3 Jul 1626 master (deceased) turned over to Peter Wiggott but it won't let me copy and paste.

England & Wales Published Wills & Probate Indexes, 1300-1858 England & Wales

Anno.1630
Henchman Stephen, of Stoke Bruerne, Northants, gent.Will (113 Scroope) pre Dec16 by rel. PERSES and son Joseph.

Stephen Henchman
in the England & Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858
Name: Stephen Henchman
[Stephani Henchman]
Probate Date: 16 Dec 1630
Residence: Stoake Bruerne, Northamptonshire, England

The image of the document is on Ancestry, two pages of it, but flowery handwriting makes it virtually impossible to read apart from a few words here and there, unfortunately.

Odd snippets:

There's some mention of "freehold land and tenements in the town of Northampton"
Also "my lands and tenements in West Haddon in the county of Northampton."

The name William Harrison is mentioned, and also the namesTom and Joseph.

There's mention of Stephen's wife and daughter, though I can't decipher their names. The wife is possibly Florrie ??
"Florrie" is left all his linen and half of all his other goods.

"my house and effects in Wellingborough . . "

Thomas Henchman is named - can't make out if any relationship is given.

John Waterfall of Dallington

John Spencer, my son in law. Mary ?and Abigail, my grandchildren and I think Martha their mother are all mentioned.

Oooh thanks folks. How sure are you of John Spencer being detailed as the Son in Law. I'm not sure where to look for this. I'll have a bite to eat and my brain might work better then! Christopher Spencer question - I shall have a dig as it's a fair comment if Christopher doesn't fit BUT on the Latter Day Saints Familysearch (I think it's called) they have him there. The source might be a history book i'd love to get my hands on but lessee if I can or already have pulled a parish record!

What's the consensus on where the Spencer's of Kingsbury come from as that is, above all, the million dollar question to continue the trace back before 1600. If we have John marrying Dorothea (there is no bloomin records anywhere for her) sure it backs up the correct transcription but in itself it does not shed any light on who John Spencer's Dad and Grandad were and any brothers and sisters to shed light on any potential migration paths. Above it's suggested that it is probably London but London will be a nightmare for tracing common names!

Thanks.

Hey Maddie, yeah, you're absolutely right - I can't find a baptism record either! I'd got this information (from memory) from Latter Day Saints family trees. I've seen a fair few examples of incomplete or even missing baptisms though on Ancestry where i've just been looking. Have you got a better suggestion - thanks ever so much.

Maddie, if you going for the alternative birth of John being to Katherine - that birth would be in Northampton in which case the only marriages I can see that would fit would be the marriage of Catherine Lamson in 1704 In Harrington Northamptonshire and Catherine Haddon in 1707 in Wappenham in terms of John being the Father of John. No Katherines in the area.

What are your thoughts please on this too? Thanks.