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Hi Rose and Gran,

I was just coming back to add that both Florence and Emma married stating their maiden names were Coldham.

Fossey is correct, my niece remembered seeing a daughter in Wiltshire called Doff. So I went trawling for births and found the 1945 Chippenham birth for Dorothy.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Something dire must have happened for the girls to use the alternate name. Oooooh your suggestion about him already being married is intriguing :-D

Sue x

No sign of Arthur Coldham in 1901 or 1911, which are the only years we see Arthur Dale.


Arthur Coldham
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Arthur Coldham
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relationship to Head: Son
Mother: Emma Coldham
Gender: Male
Where born: Finchley, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Finchley
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address: Green Lane 1 Old Manor Cottage
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Barnet
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors:
Piece: 1371
Folio: 42
Page Number: 78
Household Members:
Name Age
Emma Coldham 36
Arthur Coldham 12
Charles Coldham 10
Herbert Coldham 7
Emma Coldham 5
Henry Thos. Coldham 3
Emma Harrison 73
Samuel Smith 23

And did he change back again later?

Arthur H Coldham
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Arthur H Coldham
Death Age: 58
Birth Date: abt 1869
Registration Date: Apr 1927
[May 1927]
[Jun 1927]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Barnet
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 409


1922 ER (and also 1920):

Arthur Henry Coldham Sr
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Arthur Henry Coldham Sr
Gender: Male
Electoral Date: 1920
Ward or Division/Constituency: Finchley
County or Borough: Barnet, England

He's with Arthur Henry junior, and Esther.

Address: Windsor Castle Cottage

Perhaps Arthur Coldham was already married and changed his surname?

Births Mar 1869
Coldham Arthur Henry Barnet 3a 153

Marriages Mar 1891
Coldham Arthur Henry Barnet 3a 288
Fielder Elizabeth Ann Barnet 3a 288
HALSEY Clara Ann Barnet 3a 288

Name: Arthur Dale
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 31 Mar 1901
Event Place: Rochdale, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom
County: Lancashire
Civil Parish: Rochdale
Ecclesiastical Parish: Rochdale St Mary
Sub-District: Wardleworth
Registration District: Rochdale
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Occupation: PAINTER
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birth Year (Estimated): 1869
Birthplace: Holloway, London
Schedule Type: 191
Page Number: 26


Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Arthur Dale Head M 32 Holloway, London
Esther Dale Wife F 32 Swansea
Arthur Harry Dale Son M 2 Cardiff



Rose

Do you know where in Wiltshire?

Emma?

Marriages Mar 1929
Coldham Emma E Fossey Barnet 3a 744
Fossey Arthur H Coldham Barnet 3a 744

Deaths Sep 1966
FOSSEY EMMA E 61 CHIPPENHAM 7C 382

Deaths Jun 1979
FOSSEY ARTHUR HENRY 22NO1905 CHIPPENHAM 23 1774

Rose

Sorry I meant June.....you are quite right.

One spanner in the works re the later baptism is on the GRO the birth for Florence her MMN is Davies. As is Emma's Mother in 1904..Conway also Arthur Henry in 1899 Cardiff.

In case something was going to be simple, I have had a quick search for a marriage Arthur Henry Dale to an Esther Davies and cannot locate one. So forget simple!

So I'm stuck on a marriage for those two...

Thanks again everyone

Sue x

1911 in Bolton

Arthur Henry Dale 42 born Middlesex House painter/paper hanger
Esther Dale 42
Arthur Henry Dale 11
Florence Dale 9 - born Rochdale
Emma Edith Dale 6 <<<<<<<<<<
Leslie Howard Fell 44

There is also a Dorothy born 1907 in the same area as Emma (Conway) but I think she died in 1908

Sue - assume you meant 6th June not 6th Jan?

baptism record

Name: Florence Dale
Age: 8
Birth Date: 6 Jun 1901
Baptism Date: 5 Oct 1909
Baptism Place: Halliwell, St Thomas, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Manchester, St Thomas
Father: Arthur Henry Dale
Mother: Esther Jane Dale

would be interesting to see if that father matches the marriage record for Flo

a tree on ancestry has no birth record for florence who married stanley

Thanks all.

Family sent through a short birth cert for Florence Dale born. Jan 1901 Wardleworth. The short form is dated 23 July 1901 but states birth as 6th Jan 1901.

Births Sep 1901
DALE Florence Rochdale 8e 46

That birth date correct for Florence Coldham who married Stanley Thomas Pocock.

I have had sight of a birth cert for one of their children and again she states formerly Coldham.

So.......... someone in this family remembers visiting a couple of ladies who she thought were Florence's siblings, one called Emma and the visits were in Wiltshire.

The family are adamant that Florence Dale and Florence Coldham are one and the same. I couldn't find a birth for Florence Coldham 6 Jun 1901 either. See above. This birth cert came to light after a death and was a surprise evidently.

My questions are therefore: does anyone have any bright ideas as to where we go from here? I realise that babies could be handed over to families outside of the immediate one if circumstances were dire. (My own Mother was married under her adopted Father's name but she was never legally adopted).

Thanks everyone

Sue

PROBATE OF CHARLES
3 mill hill lane morley street botolph norfolk to florence selena defew widow
effects £253 4s
Name: Charles Defew
Death Date: 14 Jan 1949
Death Place: Norfolk, England
Probate Date: 22 Feb 1949
Probate Registry: Norwich

1939
Name: Florence Defew
[S Defew]
Gender: Female
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 6 Mar 1900
Residence Year: 1939
Address: No 3
Residence Place: Forehoe and Henstead, Norfolk, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 77
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: TRLL
Registration district: 224/3
Inferred Spouse: Charles Defew
Inferred Children: Gertrude Defew
Dierich Defew
Household Members:
Name
This record is officially closed.
Gertrude Defew
Dierich Defew
Charles Defew
Florence Defew
This record is officially closed.

Name: Derek D Defew
Registration Date: Apr 1933
[May 1933]
[Jun 1933]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Forehoe
Inferred County: Norfolk
Mother's Maiden Name: Coldham

Thanks for all the replies.

With the conflicting information I'll have to arrange for the marriage certificate.

You would have thought that surname would have been fairly straightforward.

Thanks again

Sue x

Perhaps the marriage certificate for Stanley would be a good idea to confirm who is Florence's father

Child of the marriage to Pocock

Births Sep 1924 (>99%)
Pocock Stanley A W Coldham Holborn 1b 908

Death matches birth record

Name: Florence Selina Defew
Death Age: 81
Birth Date: 16 Mar 1900
Registration Date: Oct 1981
[Nov 1981]
[Dec 1981]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Norwich Outer
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 10
Page: 2174

And location makes more sense

not that I can find a birth for a Florence Coldham

are you sure you have the right Florence Coldham

There is a Florence S Coldham who marries in 1921 to Charles Dehew

and

Florence Coldham who marries Stanley T Pocock in 1922

I Stanley's probate record she is also just Florence (the other executor has a full name)

She is also just Florence on the 1939 register

death record just Florence with birth 6/6/1901

Confirmation is always useful GG

ErikaH - quicker on the button for the births and marriages for Florence. Having not refreshed, I'll now delete the Robert Henry birth but leave the site reference for info.! GG

Using the free site - https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

Robert Henry's birth shows a different mmn