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Yes, I meant to add that I can't see her death c1932 either. (But clicked "submit" by mistake!)

That threw me too AG, then I read posting again, and saw William was 16 when Ethel died (him being born 1916)...

Chris :)

You said Ethel died aged 33, Wendy.
That would mean she died c1917.

I don't see any death of an Ethel Stanley aged 33, 1916-9

Which year was Death of Ethel Stanley?, I saw below, but it didn't look to fit with her Birth age...

Deaths Sep 1935 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------
Stanley Ethel 41 Manchester S. 8d 137

Chris :)

Thank you all for your kind replies, Ethel Harrison died age 33years, of sadness some family have said. Tom Stanley did come back sometime during the war years as I have a letter she sent to her two sons in Australia and it says she saw his war wounds, but he did go back to Australia to live. There two sons Dennis and Tom sent to live in an orphanage in Australia by Barnadoes. My grandmother Ethel visited my father William regularly but when he was 7years old they went to live at Rusholme Road in Manchester with a William Green which he considered a step father. He was 16 years old when his mother died. Mr Green sold Ethel's piano and various other belongings of his mothers so after a few years he left and made his way to work at the 0.S. in Southampton. We are in contact with relatives in Australia and I took my father to meet them all and to pay visits to his brothers Tom and Dennis Stanley's graves. When Tom Stanley died in Australia, Ethel Harrison was put down as his wife on his death certificate. Ethel had never remarried.

What became of Ethel?...

Chris :)

At that Address below...

Chris :)

1911
Hugh Harrison Head Married Male 24 1887 Clerk Derbyshire Eckington
Ellen Barbara Harrison Wife Married Female 24 1887 - Leicestershire Loughboro
Hilda Harrison Daughter - Female 0 1911 - Warwickshire Rugby
51 Hawthorn St Audenshaw, Audenshaw, Lancashire
(says Married 1yr, 1 child born, 1 living)

Birth
HARRISON, HILDA CHANDLEY
GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in RUGBY Volume 06D Page 586


Marriages Dec 1909 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------
HARRISON Hugh Rugby 6d 1019
Ellen Barbara Chandley

(checked above FMP to get her Name)

1891
Benjamin Harrison Head Married Male 29 1862 Railway Signalman Norfolk, England
Alice L Harrison Wife Married Female 29 1862 - Felthorpe, Norfolk, England
Ethel Harrison Daughter - Female 7 1884 Scholar Derbyshire, England
Hugh Harrison Son - Male 4 1887 Scholar Derbyshire, England
Alice Harrison Daughter - Female 1 1890 - Eckington, Derbyshire, England
Harry Copping Brother Single Male 17 1874 Fireman Of Steam Excavator Norfolk, England
Queen Street, Eckington, Chesterfield, Derbyshire


Birth
HARRISON, ETHEL CUPPING
GRO Reference: 1884 M Quarter in CHESTERFIELD Volume 07B Page 737

(according to Eckington School Admission, Born 23/11/83)


Marriages Mar 1883 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------------------
COPPING Alice Louisa Chesterfield 7b 1027
HARRISON Benjamin Chesterfield 7b 1027

Thomas also in WW2 -

Thomas Stanley
in the Australia, World War II Military Service Records, 1939-1945
Name: Thomas Stanley
Birth Date: 28 Aug 1887
Birth Place: Gravesend England
Year Range: 1939 - 1948
Enlistment Place: Adamstown New South Wales
Service Number: N393421
Next of Kin: J Stanley
Series Description: B884: Army Citizen Military Forces

Thomas Stanley signed up on 8/10/1915 at Armidale, NSW. (as Wendy knows.)

Ethel's address is given first as 87 Lockall Chase, Greenhithe, Kent, and then changed to 51 Hawthorn Street, Audenshaw, Manchester.

So either they had separated and she remained in England, or else she went out later.
I don't see any emigration record for her.

I wonder if Thomas ever knew about William?
He was definitely away during the whole time of conception/pregnancy/birth.

Try looking round on below...(National archives Australia) Go to Record Search, then Name Search)

https://www.naa.gov.au/

Chris :)

(you can view image)

STANLEY THOMAS STANLEY Thomas : Service Number - 4245 : Place of Birth - Gravesend England : Place of Enlistment - Armidale NSW : Next of Kin - (Wife) STANLEY Ethel
Access status: Open
Location: Canberra
1914 - 1920

(one also for James Denis Stanley)


https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y

(useful for Ship arrivals, Names etc.)


Edits (from Army Record, below looks to be his Birth)

Birth
STANLEY, THOMAS WELCH
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in GRAVESEND Volume 02A Page 490

(Address given for Wife, Mrs. Ethel. Stanley, 51, Hawthorn St., Audenshaw, nr. Manchester, Eng.) (Joined 8/10/15)

Shirley said the passenger list on FMP was mainly children.

No - at least if we're talking about the 1920 voyage with the two Stanley children.

The image on Ancestry shows that in 3rd Class it's almost all young women in their 20s, all "Domestic duties". A few were married, though not travelling with husbands, but mostly were unmarried. Lots in 2nd Class too.

On the ship as a whole, there were 234 females of 12 years and upwards, but only 28 males of 12 and upwards.
Also 102 children under the age of 12.



According to this:

https://tinyurl.com/wjyuetp

"Wahehe" was originally a German ship, seized by the British in 1918, and placed under Shaw Savill management. Was used as a troopship between May 1919 and June 1920, then bought from the British government in October 1920 by Burns Philp.
It also made two voyages to Australia with migrants [ no date given, but implication that it was after the war] - so this voyage in August 1920 is clearly one of them.

It looks as though Thomas Stanley went out to Australia as an immigrant in 1914

from ancestry ............

UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960

Name: Thomas Stanley
Gender: Male
Age: 30
Birth Date: abt 1884
Departure Date: 20 Apr 1914
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Sydney, Australia
Ship Name: Borda
Search Ship Database: Search for the Borda in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: P & O Branch Service


from image:-
Occupation:- Miller

unaccompanied

???????????????

London, England, Selected Poor Law Removal and Settlement Records, 1698-1930

Name: Thomas Stanley
Residence Age: 30
Birth Date: abt 1884
Event Type: Settlement Papers
Residence Date: 11 Jan 1914
Residence Poor Law Union: Hackney
Residence: Hackney, London, England
Reference Number: HABG/195/009


I've never seen one of these before, and I don't understand what it says on the image. But could this be the explanation for the apparent breakdown of marriage.

I'm assuming that Wendy knows all about the Australian life of John, James D and Thomas as she's only asking about William.


BUT who is JOHN Stanley ................ their father's name is THOMAS


This is the Passenger List for that 1920 travel by Pvt John Stanley from FMP ........

Passenger Lists Leaving Uk 1890-1960

First name(s) John
Last name Stanley
Title PTE
Gender Male
Departure year 1920
Departure day 31
Departure month 8
Departure port Tilbury
Destination port Australia
Destination AUSTRALIA
State Sea Ports
Country Australia
Destination country Australia
Ship name Wahehe
Ship official number 143170
Ship master's first name M
Ship master's last name MACFARLANE
Shipping line SHAW SAVILL & ALBION COY

from image:-

it looks as though this is a false herring ...............

The image shows only Pvt John Stanley SPOONER, travelling with a lot of other servicemen. There are ONLY MEN listed on that page.

The only intriguing thing is that the image of John D and Thomas from FMP has an adult listed directly above them ............. Mrs Lilian Spooner,

First name(s) Lilian
Last name Spooner
Title MRS
Gender Female
Departure year 1920
Departure day 31
Departure month 8
Departure port Tilbury
Destination port Australia
Destination AUSTRALIA
State Sea Ports
Country Australia
Destination country Australia
Ship name Wahehe
Ship official number 143170
Ship master's first name M
Ship master's last name MACFARLANE
Shipping line SHAW SAVILL & ALBION COY



sooooooooooo ..........

it looks as though this John Stanley, whoever he might be left the UK under that name, then changed his name to John Stanley Spooner by arrival in Australia

He certainly is NOT shown on the page as the 2 boys, so not actually travelling together.



But again, I assume that Wendy already knows all this, and we've just got side tracked, out of curiosity.

The' NSW/BDM' shows:
Thomas Stanley died 18/8/1983 (parents Thomas & Ethel)

The 'RYERSON INDEX' shows this:
Thomas Stanley 'late of Killarney Vale formerly of South Kincumber'.
Notice in the 'Daily Telegraph' (Sydney) 19/8/1983.

Valerie

'GR' travel records show:
PTE John Stanley (no age given) travelling with
James Denis Stanley (11) and
Thomas Stanley (8/9) on same ship 'Wahehe' 1920 to Sydney NSW.

Valerie

This is another version of the shipping list, from FMP, giving a little more detail, for both James Denis and Thomas

Record Transcription:

First name(s) J D
Last name Stanley
Title MASTER
Gender Male
Age 11
Birth year 1909
Departure year 1920
Departure day 31
Departure month 8
Departure port Tilbury
Destination port Sydney
Destination SYDNEY
State New South Wales
Country Australia
Destination country Australia

Destination Port is Sydney

Thomas says he is 8 years old

and they intend to live permanently in Australia

Hi
The 'RYERSON INDEX' (on-line) has death record for James Denis Stanley - notice states 'late of Broadbeach' ….. in the 'Gold Coast Bulletin' 25 Nov 1981.

The 'QLD State Library' (on-line) has an 'Ask Us' librarian service - they will check the newspaper notice/s -for any further family info.

They will also check electoral rolls (past & present) for any family names.
(we ALL have to be 'on the rolls')

Valerie

I looked at the image of that passenger list on FMP .................

they're mainly children, travelling 3 rd class. Some adults, but they don't seem to have the same surname(s) as any of the children

??????

I thought of using the 1939 Register, but they could have moved anywhere!!

The names are not exactly unusual!