Find Ancestors

Crossing t's and dotting i's.. I discovered that Susan Norris and her husband Richard Brimson had three children at the end of Susan's life, who did not survive.
They already had Emily, Frank, Ann who I think died age 9, Richard, Sophia, Agnes, a William who died, and another William.
Susan their mother died in 1870, and was buried 13th November at Vallis road cemetery, Frome, Somerset.

she appears to have had Edward 1865-1865, Charles 1868-1868 and George b. 4Q 1869 with a Bath registration district.

My question is .. I can't find this baby's death...

1871 Richard 49 widower. Shoemaker is found living with his remaining children at 15 Vallis way, Frome... But no George.

I have found the burials of Susan, Edward and Charles on GR.

help with death please? Or Opinions?

Can you see anything on below, can be useful, Bath...

http://www.bathbmd.org.uk/

Chris :)

Bath Birth indexes for the years: 1869
BRIMSON Eliza NORRIS Lansdown Bath LNS/22/026
BRIMSON George NORRIS Lansdown Bath LNS/22/025


Marriages Dec 1846 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------
Brimson Richard Frome 10 621
Norris Susan Frome 10 621


1871 (Reference)
Richard Brimson Head (Wdr.) - Male 49 1822 - Somerset, England (Shoemaker)
Frances Brimson Son - Male 20 1851 - Somerset, England
Richard Brimson Son - Male 16 1855 - Somerset, England
Sophia Brimson Daughter - Female 14 1857 - Somerset, England
Agnes A Brimson Daughter - Female 11 1860 - Somerset, England
William Brimson Son - Male 8 1863 - Somerset, England
15 Vallis Way, Frome, Somerset,

1861
Richard Brimson Head Married Male 37 1824 Shoemaker Master Frome, Somerset, England
Susan Brimson Wife Married Female 30 1831 Silk Winder Frome, Somerset, England
Emily Brimson Daughter - Female 11 1850 - Frome, Somerset, England
Frank Brimson Son - Male 10 1851 - Frome, Somerset, England
Ann Brimson Daughter - Female 8 1853 - Frome, Somerset, England
Richard Brimson Son - Male 5 1856 - Frome, Somerset, England
Sophia Brimson Daughter - Female 4 1857 - Frome, Somerset, England
Agnes Brimson Daughter - Female 0 1861 - Frome, Somerset, England
William Brimson Lodger Unmarried Male 38 1823 Shoemaker Journeyman Frome, Somerset, England
Willsboro Buildings, Union Street, Frome, Somerset


Deaths Dec 1870 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------
Brimson Susan 44 Frome 5c 383


https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

(both as Brimson on above)

Birth
BRINESON, ELIZA NORRIS
GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in BATH Volume 05C Page 668

Birth
BRIMSON, GEORGE NORRIS
GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in BATH Volume 05C Page 668


(notes Edward and Charles, Births, Deaths, Frome Registration District)

Do you have any of these Birth Certs.?...

Edward Brimson
England and Wales Birth Registration Index, 1837-2008

Name:
Edward Brimson
Event Type:
Birth Registration
Registration Quarter:
Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year:
1865
Registration District:
Frome
County:
Somerset
Event Place:
Frome, Somerset, England
Volume:
5C
Page:
554
Affiliate Line Number:
51



Edward Brimson
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007

Name:
Edward Brimson
Event Type:
Death
Registration Quarter:
Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year:
1865
Registration District:
Frome
County:
Somerset
Event Place:
Frome, Somerset, England
Volume:
5C
Page:
353
Affiliate Line Number:
39

So if eliza and George were twins they are both missing

Are they from the same family though Or are the surnames just a coincidence and another family

Richard & Susan's is the only Brimson (male)/Norris (female) marriage in England/Wales, 1840-1869.

So these children must be theirs - unless there was an unmarried couple where the father accepted paternity.

I'm pretty sure this family below has nothing to do with it - and I don't want us to start rushing off in the wrong direction - but can't find children's births or parents' marriage to check mms:

Elizabeth Brimson
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Brimson
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: 1868
Relation: Daughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Bath Somerset England
Civil Parish: Walcot
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Lansdown
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 151
Piece: 2491
Folio: 53
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
Martha Brimson 30 - widow, laundress, Bath.
Emma Brimson 9
Elizabeth Brimson 3


Elizabeth Brimson
in the Somerset, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1914Name: Elizabeth Brimson
Baptism Date: 30 Aug 1868
Baptism Place: Bath Holy Trinity, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: Holy Trinity Bath
Father: George Brimson
Mother: Martha Brimson

Possible death of George:

Deaths Sep 1869 (>99%)
Brimson George 39 Frome 5c 323

????

1871 Census
4 Records found


Piece: RG10/2491 Place: Lansdown -Somerset Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Lansdown Ecclesiastical Parish: Lansdown
Folio: 51 Page: 17 Schedule: 116
Address: -

Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
NORRIS George Head M M 31 Labourer Somerset - Bath
NORRIS Jane Wife M F 26 Laundress Somerset - Bath
NORRIS George Son - M 1 Somerset - Bath xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
NORRIS Eliza Dau U F 1 Somerset - Bath xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

So it is another family possibly

But seems to be this marriage

Sep 1853
ALLEN Jane Bath 5c 1055
NORRIS George Bath 5c 1055

Susan Brimson
England and Wales Census, 1851
Name:
Susan Brimson
Event Type:
Census
Event Date:
1851
Event Place:
Frome, Somerset, England
Registration District:
Frome
Residence Note:
Grope Lane
Gender:
Female
Age:
24
Marital Status:
Married
Relationship to Head of Household:
Wife
Birth Year (Estimated):
1827
Birthplace:
Frome, Somerset
Page Number:
21
Registration Number:
HO107
Piece/Folio:
1932 / 285
Affiliate Record Type:
Household
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Richard Brimson Head Male 28 Frome, Somerset
Susan Brimson Wife Female 24 Frome, Somerset
Emily Brimson Daughter Female 1 Frome, Somerset

Thank you all. It seems so far logically that the twins names were mistranscribed. With 'Brimsons' it's not unusual. It could be that George and his sister are from different parents, as it is Bath Reg. But I have a death in another part of family from Frome, but a bath reg, I wondered if the reg districts changed somehow, but George and Martha may well be the parents.

Richard and Susan's dead children buried thus, Edward 24.12.65 and Charles 17.8.68 in Vallis Cemetery same as Susan. No, Chris I do not have birth certs for them.

If the Father George (and Martha) death and age at death is correct, died Frome, scarily I might know who he is. Given birth about 1830, I found years ago on fromeresearch.org a rough copy register birth for George Brimson about 1830 accredited to the above Richards father also Richard, but later transcribed as belonging to Benjamin Brimson from Frome. (You never know)
Susan (Norris) had a sister called Martha (Norris) from Frome, but I must check her out. It would be weird if she is the same Martha (Norris) Brimson we have given here ... Just thinking aloud. :-(

Sorry Susan had a sister Mary, so my thought about Martha Norris is incorrect :-S

You would need the 1869 Certs. to be sure of anything...

Chris :)

(looking at 1871 family posted above, in 1891 they have below)

Bath Birth indexes for the years: 1883
NORRIS Amelia Jane BRIMSON Lansdown Bath LNS/29/467


(if Jane below)

Birth
BRIMSON, JANE MARCHANT
GRO Reference: 1843 J Quarter in BATH Volume 11 Page 18

(and below might relate to her)

Bath Birth indexes for the years: 1840
BRIMSON (girl) Daughter Of Robert MARCHANT Lyncombe/Widcombe - First Series Bath LW1/2/471

George and Jane (and twins) in 1881:

George Norris
in the 1881 England Census
Name: George Norris
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Jane Norris
Gender: Male
Where born: Bath, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Walcot
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street address: 3 Milk St
Marital status: Married
Occupation: General Labourer
Registration district: Bath
Sub registration district: Lansdown
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors:
Piece: 2440
Folio: 49
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
George Norris 42
Jane Norris 36
Lizza Norris 11
George Norris 11
William Norris 9
Ellen Norris 6
Charles Norris 2
Eliza Sims 52


NORRIS, CHARLES mms BRIMSON
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in BATH Volume 05C Page 631


NORRIS, ELLEN mms BRIMSON
GRO Reference: 1875 M Quarter in BATH Volume 05C Page 678

NORRIS, WILLIAM mms BRIMSON
GRO Reference: 1872 M Quarter in BATH Volume 05C Page 727


Looks like they didn't marry until later:

Marriages Mar 1877 (>99%)
BRIMSON Jane Bath 5c 845
Norris George Bath 5c 845


As Jane wasn't married when the twins were born, maybe that's what confused the registrar?
Maybe they were registered correctly under her surname Brimson, but then perhaps the surname Jane was known by (Norris) was added as her maiden name.

If you were to buy the birth certs, I think we'd all be fascinated to know what they do say!

But as it's not your Richard/Susan family, it's not relevant to your search, so I suppose we'll never know!


[The Martha in 1871, wife of deceased George, is a red herring and can be ignored for this search.]

Bachelor and spinster per Banns, so no apparent reason for late marriage:

Jane Brimson
in the Somerset, England, Marriage Registers, Bonds and Allegations, 1754-1914
Name: Jane Brimson
Gender: Female
Marriage or Bann Date: 8 Jan 1877
Marriage Place: Bath St Paul, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: St Paul Bath
Spouse: George Norris


Posting just in case she's related to your Brimsons - Ancestry suggests this is Jane:

Jane Brimson
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Jane Brimson
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Robt Brimson
Mother's name: Jane Brimson
Gender: Female
Where born: Monkton; Combe, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Monkton Combe
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Twerton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1b
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 99
Piece: 1940
Folio: 290
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Robt Brimson 50 - quarryman
Jane Brimson 50
Wm Brimson 19
Eliza Brimson 16
Martha Brimson 14
Elizth Brimson 10
Jane Brimson 8
Chas Selway 16


ADDED:

Yes, here's the marriage showing father's name:

Jane Brimson
in the Somerset, England, Marriage Registers, Bonds and Allegations, 1754-1914
Name: Jane Brimson
Gender: Female
Age: 34
Birth Year: abt 1843
Marriage or Bann Date: 8 Jan 1877
Marriage Place: Bath St Paul, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: St Paul Bath
Father: Robert Brimson [ stone-cutter, deceased ]
Spouse: George Norris

George's father: William Norris, labourer, deceased.

Address of both Jane and George: 1 Milk Street.
Witnesses: Mary Ann (possibly Marg. Ann) Hiskins and Owen J Hill.

Wonderful research. You should be paid detectives. A big thanks.

Re Shirley's post:

Marriages Sep 1853 (>99%)
ALLEN Jane Bath 5c 1055
NORRIS George Bath 5c 1055
ORCHARD Abraham Bath 5c 1055
ROBERTS Ann Bath 5c 1055

Using http://www.bathbmd.org.uk/
Bath Marriage indexes for the years: 1853
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
NORRIS George ROBERTS Ann Bath, St James Bath C4/3/319