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AG, looks like might be below, for that Samuel 1898...

Dawson Samuel 1898 (20/7/98) - Yorkshire Baptisms Rotherham Minster, Yorkshire (West Riding), England (Born 10/7/98)

(Parents, Samuel and Minnie, 5, New Zealand Yard. Father occ. Hawker)

Birth
DAWSON, SAMUEL HARRISON
GRO Reference: 1898 S Quarter in ROTHERHAM Volume 09C Page 710

(above already posted earlier)

(definitely had a Daughter Mary Ann, she was present at Death of Winifred 1918, 66, Edgar Street, Hull)


Birth
DAWSON, MARY ANN MANNION
GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in BRAMLEY Volume 09B Page 351

Thank you all for your contributions.

Looks like one of those brick walls we often come across

Gerry

John Ashley...

Chris :)

County Derbyshire
Place Alfreton
Church name St Martin
Register type Unspecified
Marriage date 20 Aug 1877
Groom forename John
Groom surname ASHLEY
Groom age 36
Groom parish Blackwell
Groom condition Bachelor
Groom occupation Miner
Bride forename Lucy
Bride surname DAWSON
Bride age 25
Bride parish Alfreton
Bride condition Spinster
Groom father forename John
Groom father surname ASHLEY
Groom father occupation Miner
Bride father forename Henry
Bride father surname DAWSON
Bride father occupation Miner
Witness1 Samuel SMITH
Witness2 Sarah Ann SMITH

https://www.freereg.org.uk/


Yorkshire Death indexes for the years: 1918
DAWSON Winifred 39 Myton Hull MYT/41A/12

http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/index.php

Edits (a Baptism, Yorkshire, Handsworth for below, Parents, Henry (occ. Collier) and Marianne)

Birth
DAWSON, LUCY WARD
GRO Reference: 1855 D Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 337

(no advance on Winifred though!, what was Address on 1918 Death Cert.?)

(now seen on Army Record, FMP, was, 66, Edgar Street, Hull)


Baptisms FMP Hull for below...

Dawson James Albert 1908 — 1908 Yorkshire Baptisms Hull, St Matthew, Yorkshire (East Riding), England (Born April 7)

Dawson Ellen 1910 — 1910 Yorkshire Baptisms Hull, St Barnabas, Yorkshire (East Riding), England (Born 7/6/10) (Twin)

Dawson Louisa 1910 — 1910 Yorkshire Baptisms Hull, St Barnabas, Yorkshire (East Riding), England (Born 7/6/1910) (Twin)

Dawson Lily 1912 — 1912 Yorkshire Baptisms Hull, St James, Yorkshire (East Riding), England (Born 10/5/12)

Dawson John William 1914 — 1914 Yorkshire Baptisms Hull, St James, Yorkshire (East Riding), England (Born 24/11/14)

(notes 1910 Baptisms, Sponsor, Jane Wailem?)

MMS of the Dawson children in 1911 varies -
Manning, Mannion, Mannison

Interestingly, Samuel's Service Record doesn't mention the 1898 son Samuel, but his Pension Record does..
Samuel junior isn't with Samuel & Winifred in 1911.
In fact, I can't see him anywhere in 1911.

Samuel Dawson
in the British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
Name: Samuel Dawson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1876
Enlistment Age: 40
Marriage Place: Registry Office Mansfield
Document Year: 1916
Residence Place: 27 Discount Court, St James St Hall
Regimental Number: 24153
Other Regimental Numbers: 33955
Regiment Name: Labour Corps
Number of Images: 28
Form Title: Record of Service
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Samuel Dawson Self (Head)
Winnifred Mannion Spouse
Mary Ann Dawson Child
Henry Dawson Child
Lucy Dawson Child
Louisa Dawson Child
Hellen Dawson Child
Lily Dawson Child
John Dawson Child
Thomas Dawson Child


Samuel Dawson
in the British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920
Name: Samuel Dawson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1880
Birth Place: Tibshel, Derbyshire, England
Marriage Date: 8 Apr 1901
Marriage Place: Regis Scotfhill Mansfield
Age: 34
Document Year: 1914
Regimental Number: 583
Regiment Name: 8th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Number of Images: 12
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Samuel Dawson Self (Head)
Winnifred Mammon Spouse
Samuel Dawson Dawson Child
Mary Ann Dawson Child
Henry Dawson Child
Lucy Dawson Child
Ellen Dawson Child
Louisa Dawson Child
Lily Dawson Child

Looks like Sam junior died in 1917:

Samuel Dawson
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Samuel Dawson
Death Age: 18
Birth Date: abt 1899
Registration Date: Apr 1917
[May 1917]
[Jun 1917]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Hull
Inferred County: Yorkshire East Riding
Volume: 9d
Page: 349

And they're right, sadly:

Winifred Hoy
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Winifred Hoy
Gender: Female
Age: 12
Relationship: Daughter
Birth Year: 1879
Father: Luke Hoy
Mother: Mary Hoy
Birth Place: Farnworth, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Manchester
Residence Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Sub registration district: St George
ED, Institution or Vessel: 29
Neighbors:
Piece: 3248
Folio: 51
Household Members:
Name Age
Luke Hoy 34
Mary Hoy 31
Winifred Hoy 12
James Hoy 10
Elizabeth Hoy 8
John Hoy 5
Luke Hoy 1 Month

Ancestry links the mother on that record to this marriage

Registration Year: 1883
GRAHAM Mary HOY Luke Bolton Register Office or Registrar Attended Bolton RO/77/169

Shame.................

This is the only illegitimate Winnie/Winifred in Bolton c1879:


GRAHAM, WINNIE -
GRO Reference: 1879 J Quarter in BOLTON Volume 08C Page 306


Winifred Graham
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Winifred Graham
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relationship to Head: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Farnworth, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Farnworth
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 26 Crescent Court
Registration district: Bolton
ED, institution, or vessel: 10b
Neighbors:
Piece: 3815
Folio: 41
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Catherine Graham 50 - unmarried
Mary Graham 22 - unmarried
Winifred Graham 2

The grandchild Samuel in 1901 is probably the son Samuel who is on Samuel senior's army record already posted.

So he's Samuel's son , and therefore Lucy Ashley nee Dawson's grandson.

Harrison could be a misreading of Mannion, if the handwriting was bad.

However, that doesn't help find Winnie before young Sam's birth.

Re the Ashley/Dawson family in 1901 - I think that's the right one:

Marriages Sep 1877 (>99%)
ASHLEY John Belper 7b 734
DAWSON Lucy Belper 7b 734

So Sam Dawson in 1901 census is more likely to be a step-son to John Ashley, and not literally a son-in-law.

"Minnie" seems likely to be a mistake by the enumerator, instead of writing Winnie.

The "grandson" Sam is more of a mystery - born in Yorkshire.
Possibly a nephew or great-nephew of Lucy ?


Lucy before marriage:

Lucy Dawson
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Lucy Dawson
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: 1850
Relation: Daughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Handsworth Yorkshire England
Civil Parish: Handsworth
Town: Woodhouse
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: Handsworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 43
Piece: 4700
Folio: 53
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Dawson 64
Charlotte Dawson 63
Charlotte Dawson 23
Lucy Dawson 21


Lucy Dawson
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Lucy Dawson
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: 1849
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Samuel Dawson
Mother's name: Charlotte Dawson
Gender: Female
Where born: Handsworth, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Handsworth
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: Handsworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 154
Piece: 3501
Folio: 13
Page Number: 29
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Dawson 53
Charlotte Dawson 53
Joseph Dawson 18
Walter Dawson 16
Charlotte Dawson 14
Lucy Dawson 12

Lucy Dawson
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Lucy Dawson
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Samuel Dawson
Mother's name: Charlotte Dawson
Gender: Female
Where born: Handsworth, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Handsworth
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: Brightside
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 90
Piece: 2342
Folio: 565
Page Number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Dawson 44
Charlotte Dawson 43
John Dawson 20
Mary Dawson 18
William Dawson 16
Josh Dawson 8
Walter Dawson 6
Charlotte Dawson 4
Lucy Dawson 1

a very long shot
1881
Name: John Mannion
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relationship to Head: Prisoner
Gender: Male
Where born: Northwich, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Warrington
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: "Police Station" Irlam St
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Labourer In Iron Works --------------
Registration district: Warrington
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors:
Piece: 3795
Folio: 82
Page Number: 13

Neither of those is likely to be relevant, as they were born too late for them to be recorded on censuses as being born in 1879

can only find 2 winifreds born in bolton 1879

Births Sep 1879 (>99%)
Drury Winifred Bolton 8c 373 Scan available - click to view
Spencer Winifred Marian Bolton 8c 362

She may well have been. However, I still cannot find her in 1881, 1891 nor any likely birth record

Odds are she was illegitimate and her mother later married John Mannion

John h Ashley born c1879


ASHLEY, JOHN HENRY DAWSON
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in MANSFIELD Volume 07B Page 69

So mmn was Dawson

SAMUEL IN 1901
Name: Samuel Dawson
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Tideswell, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Sheffield
Search Photos: Search for 'Sheffield' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: Sheffield St George
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: North Sheffield
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Neighbors:
Piece: 4367
Folio: 25
Page Number: 3
Household schedule number: 13

The 1901 census you refer to ? Original also says Minnie

The census was taken 31 March so unless living as man and wife already ...... this is not your couple

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Newton Green New Street, Newton, Blackwell (Derby), Mansfield, Derbyshire, England

Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Ashley Head Married Male 64 1837 Coal Miner Hewer Blackwell, Derbyshire, England
Lily Ashley Wife Married Female 49 1852 - Handsworth, Yorkshire, England
Sam Dawson Son-In-Law Married Male 26 1875 Colliery Banksman Tibshelf, Derbyshire, England
Minnie Dawson Daughter Married Female 22 1879 - Bolton, Lancashire, England
Albert Ashley Son Single Male 20 1881 Colliery Banksman Tibshelf, Derbyshire, England
William Shaw Nephew Single Male 22 1879 - Tibshelf, Derbyshire, England
Joe Shaw Nephew Single Male 20 1881 Colliery Pony Driver (Below Ground) Tibshelf, Derbyshire, England
Sam Dawson Grand Son Single Male 2 1899 - Rotherham, Yorkshire, England


Albert's Father is an Ashley and his Mother's maiden name Dawson

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
ASHLEY, ALBERT DAWSON
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in MANSFIELD Volume 07B Page 66

and grandson Samuel -

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
DAWSON, SAMUEL HARRISON
GRO Reference: 1898 S Quarter in ROTHERHAM Volume 09C Page 710

EDIT - although ages places of birth for Samuel and Winifred/Minnie would appear to "match" 1901 to 1911

Will you please post the 1901 census for our info

The census was taken BEFORE the marriage took place, so what name is the woman using?

for ref


Winifred
Last name Mannion
Sex Female
Marriage year 1901
Parish Mansfield Register Office
Place Mansfield
Spouse's first name Samuel
Spouse's last name Dawson
County Derbyshire
Country England
Register Office Mansfield (Notts)
Reference MRO/21/067

1911
6 Vaults Lane Waterside Road Barton upon Humber, Barton upon Humber, Lincolnshire, England
Samuel Dawson Head Married Male 36 1875 General Dealer Tibshelf Derby
Winifred Dawson Wife Married Female 32 1879 Hawker Bolton Lanc
Mary Ann Dawson Daughter Single Female 9 1902 School , England
Lucy Dawson Daughter Single Female 5 1906 - Hull Yorks
Eleen Dawson Daughter - Female 0 1911 - Hull Yorks
Louisa Dawson Daughter - Female 0 1911 - Hull Yorks
Henry Dawson Son Single Male 7 1904 School Mansfield Notts
James Dawson Son Single Male 2 1909 - Hull Yorks

in the British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-19



Name: Winnifred Mammon
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 8 Apr 1901
Marriage Place: Regis Scotfhill Mansfield
Document Year: 1914
Relationship to Soldier: Spouse
Form Title: Military History Sheet
Number of Images: 12
Other Records:
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Samuel Dawson Self (Head)
Winnifred Mammon Spouse
Samuel Dawson Dawson Child
Mary Ann Dawson Child
Henry Dawson Child
Lucy Dawson Child
Ellen Dawson Child
Louisa Dawson Child
Lily Dawson Child

Don’t think that’s the right couple on the 1901 census as there is a son Samuel born c1898

This is the birth


DAWSON, SAMUEL HARRISON
GRO Reference: 1898 S Quarter in ROTHERHAM Volume 09C Page 710