Find Ancestors

(rest of info. from 1842)

Chris :)

Christ Church Southwark 10 Apr 1842
George Sibley (Full Age, Widower, occ. Carpenter, 4, George Street. Father, William Sibley, occ. Bricklayer)
Mary Liles (Full Age, Spinster, 4, George Street. Father, Henry Liles, occ. Builder)
(wits. James Pridaux, E. Liles)


(below that witness, George Sibley was the witness, her Abode, Brook Mews, same occ. again for Henry Liles)

Marriages Mar 1848 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------
Capp George Kensington 3 229
LILES Elizabeth Kensington 3 229


1851
George Capp Head Married Male 24 1827 Conductor Enfield, Middlesex, England
Elizabeth Capp Wife Married Female 24 1827 - Westbury, Wiltshire, England
William Capp Son - Male 3 1848 - Paddington, Middlesex, England
Frederick Capp Son - Male 0 1851 - Paddington, Middlesex, England
Princess Street, St Marylebone, Marylebone, London & Middlesex,


Birth
CAPP, WILLIAM HENRY LYALLS
GRO Reference: 1848 J Quarter in KENSINGTON PADDINGTON AND FULLHAM Volume 03

Birth
CAPP, GEORGE FREDERICK LILES
GRO Reference: 1849 D Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01 Page 205


(a Surname for variants, that one!)


1841
Henry Lyles Male 55 1786 Wiltshire, England (Bricklayer)
Mary Lyles Female 55 1786 -
Amelia Greenland Female 7 1834 Wiltshire, England
Chalford, Westbury, Westbury & Whorwelsdown, Wiltshire


1851
Henry Liles Head Married Male 72 1779 Mason Chalford, Wiltshire, England
Mary Liles Wife Married Female 70 1781 - Exeter, Devon, England
Amelia Greenland Niece - Female 14 1837 Glover Westbury, Wiltshire, England
Chalford, Westbury, Wiltshire,


1861
Henry Lyles Head Widower Male 88 1773 Bricklayer Westbury, Wiltshire, England
Amelia Greenland Granddaughter Unmarried Female 25 1836 Glove Maker Westbury, Wiltshire, England


Wiltshire Death indexes for the years: 1862

LILES Henry 90 Westbury History Centre WEST/8/307


1841 (if George)
William Sebley Male 50 1791 (Gardener) (these 3 Not Born in County)
Samuel Sebley Male 20 1821 (Bricklayer)
George Sebley Male 20 1821 (Carpenter)
Alfred Sebley Male 8 1833 Middlesex, England
Henry Sebley Male 2 1839 Middlesex, England
Elizabeth Sebley Female 40 1801 (Laundress)
Graham Street, Lower, St George Hanover Square, London & Middlesex


1851
William Sibby Head - Male 64 1787 Working Gardener Poole, Dorset, England
Elizabeth - Wife - Female 54 1797 - Aldgate, Middlesex, England
Ann Jewell Sister Unmarried Female 50 1801 House Servant Hammersmith, Middlesex, England
Alfred Sibley Son Unmarried Male 17 1834 Journeyman Bricklayer Pimlico, Middlesex, England
Mary Jewell Niece - Female 14 1837 Artificial Florish Pimlico, Middlesex, England
Graham Street West, Saint George, St George Hanover Square, London & Middlesex


(no idea about above in relation to Wheeler/Liles, just added in case!)

Chris Ho
I am a registered member of the GRO site, so I will log in and see if I can find the search function - never knew about this possibility since 2016!
I've managed to find all the baptisms for David and Jane's children born in the Bath, Somerset district using the Bath GRO site (like the Gloucestershire site you linked earlier). I also tried hunting in Bath district for a marriage of a David WHEELER and Jane WORKMAN, but didn't find anything.....

ArgyllGran
I'm referring to Chris Ho's possible find (see below) with regards to parents for Mary Ann LILE which might mean her father's surname was SIBLEY which would mean her maiden name was SIBLEY (wrongly transcribed as TIBLEY with a T)? And that it was her mother's maiden name that was LILE.... long shot, but you never know!

Marriage
10 Apr 1842 Christ Church, Southwark
George Sibley (Widower)
Mary Liles (Spinster)

........................

Yes, it's possible Tibley should be Sibley -

But Tibley (or whatever it might be) is the MOTHER's maiden name, so shouldn't have anything to do with Mary Ann's father's name.

If she invented her supposed father's name, there are a number of births of girls named Mary (Ann) Sibley in various parts of London at around the right time - but no marriage of a Sibley to an Iles or Liles.
None of those are illegitimate births.

You have to register on GRO before you can search...(has been available since end of 2016, I believe)

Chris :)

(Marriage David and Jane, not seeing, so far!)

Hi ArgyllGran & Chris Ho,

Thanks for the latest finds. Here are my comments:

ArgyllGran
Could Tibley be an incorrect spelling for Sibley (with an S) - her father's name is stated as Sibley LILES on her marriage cert. Perhaps Tibley should be SIBLEY??
With regards to 2x 1881 census finds for Thomas WHEELER - his occupation as time of marriage in 1892 was labourer, so perhaps stable boy or scholar training for sea turned into labourer 11 years later. Hard to tell. I'll see if I can trace an 1891 for either of those Thomas WHEELER's you have found, looking for a stable/horse worker and/or seaman. At least to eliminate if nothing else.

Chris Ho
I don't have any memories of previously request info on George WHEELER, and I've just checked my historical 'watched threads' - no previous requests on the WHEELER family.
Birth of George WHEELER in 1840 Corsham - not sure. I'll see if I can find more info for Continuous Service Number: 30382 that might give more clues as to if it's my George WHEELER or not. Gut feeling says no, but gut can often be proven very wrong with family research.
Yes, Eliza WHEELER baptism is correct. George WHEELER the tailor and his wife Jane were in Somerset in 1851 census - Class: HO107; Piece: 1942; Folio: 454; Page: 5; GSU roll: 221101.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp - this link takes me to the cert ordering page on gro.gov.uk site - not sure how to navigate that site to find maiden names. I never knew they were available before 1912ish. You learn something new every day!
Marriage David WHEELER and Jane TYLER - looks like I wrongly assumed David married a Jane 'TYLER' (indeed Jane TYLER married John HOLMES) - seems it should be Jane WORKMAN - but not finding a marriage for a David WHEELER and Jane WORKMAN.... I have now updated my tree to read Jane WORKMAN. David and Jane are together in the 1841 census with son George at Sandy Lane in Whithing Tithing, Calne District - Class: HO107; Piece: 1168; Book: 4; Civil Parish: Calne Parish; County: Wiltshire; Enumeration District: 6; Folio: 46; Page: 8; Line: 22; GSU roll: 464193. Where is David WHEELER and Jane WORKMAN's marriage registration????
Thanks for Jane WORKMAN's baptism record in 1818 and great marriage find for her parents Robert WORKMAN and Sarah JENNINGS!

........................

From below, regarding Jane Tyler Marriage 1838...

(Workman is Maiden Name given for George 1839, along with Sarah and Fanny)

Chris :)

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MainMenu.aspx

HOLMES John TYLER Jane Cheltenham Charlton Kings St Mary 1838 1 16


http://www.wiltshirebmd.org.uk/index.php

(above for Wiltshire)


Wiltshire baptisms index 1530-1917 (Find My Past)

First name(s) Jane
Last name Workman
Birth year 1818
Birth date ? ? 1818
Baptism year 1818
Baptism date 07 Jun 1818
Place Corsham
Father's first name(s) Robert
Father's occupation Plasterer
Mother's first name(s) Sarah
County Wiltshire


(below from google search)

https://www.wiltshire-opc.org.uk › Items › Corsham - Marriages 1800-1837

Workman. Robert. Bach. Jennings. Sarah. Spin. 1804. 31-Oct. Edwards. John. Bach. Evans. Mary. Spin. Pucklechurch, Glos. Licence.


(looking at Wilts. and Glos. Marriages on Ancestry, not seeing!)

I wasn't sure if that Corsham was the right George, which is why I posted below, in case of...

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7879065

(Name Wheeler, George Place of Birth: Corsham, Wiltshire Continuous Service...
Date of Birth: 23 December 1840)


I had wondered if you have had any previous queries relating to George, as I had a 'Tick' coming up on Navy Record FMP, this means 'viewed before'

Chris :)

(below from 1851 Census)

Baptism
County Somerset
Place Walcot
Church name Holy Trinity
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 1179
Baptism date 12 Oct 1848
Person forename Eliza
Father forename David
Mother forename Jane
Father surname WHEELER
Person abode 3 Queen Street
Father occupation Tailor

https://www.freereg.org.uk/


(and below, male infant, 1851)

Birth
WHEELER, FRANCIS WORKMAN
GRO Reference: 1851 J Quarter in BATH Volume 11 Page 46


Edits (below link for GRO Index to check maiden names)

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

Perhaps Thomas Henry in 1881, with age slightly out ??

Thomas Wheeler
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Thomas Wheeler
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Relationship to Head: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Islington
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 20 Gainford St
Occupation: Stable Boy (Huntsmans Ser)
Registration district: Islington
Sub Registration District: Islington West
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Neighbors:
Piece: 233
Folio: 64
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Amos 31
Maria Amos 28
Edward W. Amos 9
Grace Amos 5
Thomas Wheeler 14



Or this one ???

Thomas Wheeler
in the 1881 Wales Census
Name: Thomas Wheeler
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Relation: Scholar
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Llandegfan
County/Island: Anglesey
Country: Wales
Street address: "Clio"
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholars Training For The Sea
Registration district: Bangor
Sub Registration District: Beaumaris
ED, institution, or vessel: Industrial Training School Ship Cleo
Neighbors:
Piece: 5574
Folio: 118
Page Number: 2

Rebecca -
you queried the name Tibley on Thomas Henry's 1869 birth record.

Rose got that on the GRO site, which gives mother's maiden name - ie - Tibley.

FreeBMD and other sites don't give mms.


So that ought to mean that Mary Ann was born Tibley and had married a Liles before marrying George Wheeler.
Alternatively she might have been born Tibley and then her mother married a Liles.

However, I don't see any such marriage.
Nor a Wheeler/Tibley marriage.


?? Wild suggestion - haven't checked this out yet [ NO, it's not her ]

TAPLEY, MARY ANN mms NOTTLE
GRO Reference: 1847 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 04 Page 348

I don't see this birth on Ancestry, although it's on FreeBMD and GRO.

EDIT
:
No, a tree on Ancestry says this Mary married Francis Yerbury.
Parents marriage:
Marriages Jun 1844 (>99%)
NOTTLE Sophia Newington 4 352
TAPLEY Thomas Newington 4 352

Thomas Henry Lambourn WHEELER b 4 Sep1869 married Gertrude Amelia JONES on 4 Sep 1892 at St Marys Church, Paddington. His occupation is stated as tailor. I am not able to trace him after 1892. Gertrude (my paternal great grandmother) went on to forge a relationship with George SPITTLE with whom she had 5 children between 1899 and 1907. She finally married George SPITTLE on 26 Jan 1911 at the registry office in Fulham.

What happened to Thomas Henry Lambourn WHEELER? I don't find him in census material, emigration or any other marriages after 1892. So strange. I'm not able to find his family either after the 1871 census. Unless that 1881 census find from Maddie is them.

Dear All,

Thanks so much for all your findings. Sorry for the delay in answering, I got called away yesterday. I will try to answer you all below:

ErikH
Where have you looked? - On Ancestry.co.uk, FMP, TheGenealogist, and FS - searchimg the usual census, BMD info etc.

Rambling
Birth 1843 - yes this looks like him, perhaps he was just baptised 4 years after he was born - does happen. Thanks.
That is the correct 1871 census - Mary Ann LILES father is stated to be Sibley LILES on her marriage cert - Sibley LILES occupation is listed as, I think, Stone Fitter (could be Stove Fitter). I'm also not finding any birth for Mary Ann LILES and I can't trace a Sibley LILES either. Her abode in 1867 at time of her marriage is 72 Westbourne Park Villas, Paddington
1861 census - yes that's about my luck... torn pages... it can be tough tracing some ancestors! I'm not tracing 1851 or 1871 for 72 Westbourne Park Villas either.

Chris Ho
Yes the birth reg for George Lambourne WHEELER 1839 matches my findings. Thanks.
Not sure if that Royal Navy find is the right George WHEELER. Date of birth would be out by one year, okay not major and not unusual, but seems off. However it could be the reason I'm not finding him in census material... Corsham as birth place is 8.2 miles from Derry Hill (baptism 1843) and 10.3 miles from Calne (1841 census). Do you still think it's a possibility it's him in the navy?
1870 baptism for Thomas Henry Lambourn WHEELER - no image - church was St James, Paddington.
Yes 1868 baptism looks like Lambert spelling, however I believe it should be Lambourn(e). I believe David WHEELER's (c1819) parents are David WHEELER c1780 and Rebecca LAMBORN c1779 (that's the origin of the name).
That marriage in 1842 finding for George SIBLEY and Mary LILES is certainly intriguing. I will investigate further. See if there are any baptisms for the children of this marriage that might lead to Mary Ann LILES (or should surname be SIBLEY....) c1846 Lambeth.
Death father George b1839 - I am unable to trace a death for him. Yes, many occupations given for him during the years. Earliest mention of name LAMBORN comes from his paternal grandmother Rebecca LAMBORN c1779 Calne, Wiltshire.

Maddie
1881 census find - birth place for mother Mary does not match 1871 census of Lambeth, but you never know. Father George had so many different occupations, it could be them, but not an absolute certainty. I will keep this in mind. Thanks.
Yes, your marriage info for George Lambourne WHEELER and Mary Ann LILES is correct, father's David WHEELER (tailor) and Sibley LILES (stone/stove? fitter).
Yes, baptism David WHEELER 1819, and your 1851 and 1861 census finds match my finds. I believe David's wife was Jane TYLER married Q2 1838 Cheltenham District.
Agree with the siblings for George - Sarah Ann & Fanny - thanks.

Flip
Thanks. I deciphered Mary Ann LILES address at time of marriage as 72 Westbourne Park Villas, Paddington. Her father was indeed listed as Sibley LILES, stone/stove fitter.

ArgyllGran
Thanks, yes that's the 1870 baptism record.

Rose
Where do you find TIBLEY on that 1869 Q4 Kensington record? I only see the mention of Thomas Henry WHEELER, not Tibley. I'm thinking Tibley could be an incorrect spelling for Sibley which is Mary Ann LILE's father's christian name according to her marriage cert date 1867. Coincidence?

Thanks again to everyone who is helping here. I hope I have not forgotten to answer anyone's posts.

What is everyone's view of Maddie's 1881 census find? Is it or isn't it the family I'm looking for??? Corsham to Derry Hill (baptism George and 1841 census) is 8.2 miles. Wife Mary is listed as being born in Lambeth in 1871 census.
1881
3, Union Street, St Marylebone, Marylebone, London & Middlesex, England
George Wheeler Head Married Male 40 1841 Painter Corsham, Wiltshire, England
Mary Wheeler Wife Married Female 36 1845 - Oxfordshire, England
George H Wheeler Son Single Male 15 1866 Errand Boy Paddington, Middlesex, England

..............................

When was Death of Father George?...(says Deceased on 1892 Marriage, Thomas)

Chris :)

(different occupations for him, Cheesemonger, Marriage, Porter, Census, Porter, George Baptism, Tailor, Thomas 1892 Marriage)

(Lambourn, Lambert)

Odd that the GRO lists the maiden name as Tibley:

WHEELER, THOMAS HENRY TIBLEY
GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 57

Rose

There's no image for the 1870 baptism on Ancestry , nor on FS:


Thomas Henry Wheeler
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Thomas Henry Wheeler
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 4 Sep 1869
Baptism Date: 30 Jan 1870
Baptism Place: Saint James, Paddington, London, England
Father: George Lambourn Wheeler
Mother: Mary Ann
FHL Film Number: 579297

What was address on 1870 Baptism?, is it on Ancestry?...(FMP, no image though)

(Leinster Street for 1868 one)


1892 Thomas Marriage looks more like Lambert Wheeler...(Father George, occ. Tailor, Deceased) on Banns also. Abode, 19 Cuthbert Street.

1868 George Wheeler Baptism, also more like Lambert.

Chris :)

Edits

?...

Marriage
10 Apr 1842 Christ Church, Southwark
George Sibley (Widower)
Mary Liles (Spinster)

Hasn't been any other 'Threads' relating, have there? I have a 'Tick' (FMP) for below...

Chris :)

Wheeler George 1841 — 1861 1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Royal Navy At Sea and in Ports Abroad, Ships and Overseas Establishments
(Born, Corsham, Wilts.)

(would be below)

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7879065

(Name Wheeler, George Place of Birth: Corsham, Wiltshire Continuous Service...
Date of Birth: 23 December 1840)


(was seeing that 1881 above, posted by Maddie, and does look like an 'H' against son George)

GEORGE HAD 2 SIBLINGS
Wheeler Sarah Ann 1841 — 1841 England & Wales Births 1837-2006 Calne, Wiltshire, England
.
Wheeler Fanny 1843 — 1843 England & Wales Births 1837-2006 Chippenham, Wiltshire, England
.
Wheeler George Lambourne 1839 — 1839 England & Wales Births 1837-2006 Chippenham, Wiltshire, England

Name: David Wheeler
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 9 Jul 1819
Baptism Date: 8 Aug 1819
Baptism Place: Calne, Wiltshire, England
Parish as it Appears: Calne
Search Photos: Search for 'Calne' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: David Wheeler
Mother: Rebecca Wheeler

in the 1861 England Census
View 1861 England Census

View blank form

Report issue

Name: David Wheeler
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: 1819
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane Wheeler
Gender: Male
Where born: Calne, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: Corsham
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Chippenham
Sub-registration district: Corsham
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 195
Piece: 1282
Folio: 35
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
David Wheeler 42
Jane Wheeler 42
Henry Wheeler 16
Mary Wheeler 14
Eliza Wheeler 12
Emma Wheeler 6

1851
Cornwell Buildings, Walcot Saint Swithins, Bath, Somerset, England
David Wheeler Head Married Male 33 1818 Tailor Calne, Wiltshire, England
Jane Wheeler Wife To Head Married Female 34 1817 Tailor's Wife Corsham, Wiltshire, England
George Wheeler Son Unmarried Male 12 1839 Tailor Corsham, Wiltshire, England
Anne Wheeler Daughter Unmarried Female 9 1842 At Home Studley, Wiltshire, England
Fanny Wheeler Daughter Unmarried Female 7 1844 At Home Wiltshire, England
Mary Wheeler Daughter Unmarried Female 5 1846 At Home Bath, Somerset, England
Eliza Wheeler Daughter Unmarried Female 3 1848 At Home Bath, Somerset, England
Infant - Son - Male 0 1851 At Home

Unfortunately the 1861 for what i think is likely to be the entry for 72 Westbourne> Park Villas Paddington is just a fragment, several other pages on same road are torn

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record/browse?id=gbc%2f1861%2f0001%2f00001a

no one with Liles name at that address in 1851 or 71 census