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Hi i keep hitting dead ends its like my nan joyce rosina smith then hart never existed till ahe married in 1951 she said she was born south shields dob 11-3-25 never spoke of family so dont know mothers or fathers name.
Any ideas would be appreciated

Is this her marriage?


Marriages Sep 1951 (>99%)

HART Eric S SMITH Middlesex S. 5f 255
SMITH Joyce R HART Middlesex S. 5f 255

If you buy the marriage certificate then if you are lucky she may name her father (if she knew him).

Kath. x

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/military_chat/thread/1379417

(above running on Military)

Chris :)

The only birth I can find that could be a possibility is this one (although this one might be North Shields rather than South Shields and no middle name):-

First name(s) JOYCE
Last name SMITH
Birth year 1925
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Smith
District Tynemouth
County Northumberland
Country England
Volume 10B
Page 452
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

It looks like this is possibly an illegitimate birth which could be why she didn't like to talk about family as being illegitimate in those days was something to be hidden.

This is just a thought and might be completely wrong.

Kath. x

Joyce Rosina Hart
Death Age: 73
Birth Date: 11 Mar 1925
Registration Date: May 1998
Registration district: Wrekin
Inferred County: Shropshire
Register Number: 24A
District and Subdistrict: 7161A
Entry Number: 146


Maybe she added the second name

Tynemouth reg district covers north shields so maybe


Joyce Smith
Registration Date: Jan 1925
[Feb 1925]
[Mar 1925]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Tynemouth
Inferred County: Northumberland
Mother's Maiden Name: Smith
Volume Number: 10b
Page Number: 452

Edit my i pad doesn’t automatically update so have come to the same birth as Kathleen

When you look at Joyce's death record on Ancestry, Ancestry suggests that birth for her.

It does also suggest one in 1926 in Newcastle.
But it's interesting that it suggests births in the NE of England when her death was in Shropshire, and her marriage in Middlesex.

And interesting that Ancestry only suggests these two births, when there were dozens of Joyce Smiths born all over the country in 1925.

She moved to shropshire after my grandad died to be closer to my uncle and yes that is her marriage and we not sure how she moved to middlesex there are a few runours one being the nuns brought her but thank you i couldnt find that birth so hopefully when her marriage cert arrived it may confirm thank you all

If she was raised by nuns, it is possible that the marriage certificate won't help with parents. It may be though that the witness names might be family, so it's always good to check.

Maybe Rosina was a name added at confirmation.

I dont know what to believe no one is giving me same story lol apperently her mum only had 1 leg so not sure why she was with the nuns one auntie can remembering going back to see the nuns which is how it come about her staying at some point with nuns

If it were my search, I think I would invest in a copy of the Tynemouth birth cert, to see what it says about father (if any).

And/or the marriage cert.

I now have copy of marriage her father name was John frederick smith who was deceased and he was a seaman in the royal navy

Were the witnesses family? It sound as if you will have to chance buying that birth cert.

Yes both from hart side the witnesses

‘Deceased’ father often meant ‘unknown’

Even tho there was a name and what his job was x

Yes

could this be the birth one year out 1924

Births Mar 1924

Smith Joyce R Smith Hemsworth 9c 351

Hemsworth district is in West Yorkshire