Find Ancestors

We need to know which - if any - of the daughters is your PROVEN relative, Sylann.

In view of your other thread about the HORNBY family - is this the connection?

Name: Beatice Carlan
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 19
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1888
Marriage Date: 6 Apr 1907
Marriage Place: West Gorton, St Mark, Lancashire, England
Father: James Sylvester Carlan *********Shoemaker, deceased
Spouse: Foster Hornby

Name: Beatrice Carlan
Age: 0
Birth Date: 27 Sep 1888
Baptism Date: 10 Oct 1888
Baptism Place: Collyhurst, Albert Memorial Church, Manchester, England

Father: James Carlan******************Bootmaker
Mother: Elizabeth Carlan
Reference Number: M140/1/27/4
Item Number: 14
Archive Roll: 513

If this has been posted before, don't shoot me down in flames. Haven't scrutinised every post

And I know it doesn't help with 1881!

Thank you

I'll have a look later at the archives

From Newspapers, FMP (also available through Genes)

(or below, subscriptions needed for all)

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/

(always worth using Newspapers, a valuable source for Family History!)


https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/account/subscribe

(subscription prices on above)

Chris :)

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/home/libraries-archives/access-archives-local-studies-library

(would have thought more perhaps at above Archives)

No help with 1881 though...


Edits (just to add, on 1899 Maria Carlan/John William Ramsbottom Marriage, a witness, Lizzie Carlan, her Residence, 75, Belle Vue St. 1902 Elizabeth Carlan/PaulDuggan Marriage, a witness John William Ramsbottom, her Residence, 23, Belle Vue St.


1891 census, Maria Carlan, Visitor, Coppenhall. Marriage 1873 (image FMP) for John Purcell/Emma Louisa Martin, his Father, Joseph Purcell occ. Shoemaker, a witness Maria Purcell)

(Maria and John, siblings of Elizabeth Purcell, perhaps)


1911 (Find My Past)
John William Ramsbottom Head Married Male 35 1876 General Engineering Manchester Lancs
Maria Ramsbottom Wife Married Female 30 1881 - Manchester Lancs
Harold Ramsbottom Son Single Male 11 1900 Johnstone St Board School Manchester Lancs
Beatrice Ramsbottom Daughter Single Female 9 1902 Ashton Old Rd Board School Manchester Lancs
John Ramsbottom Son Single Male 7 1904 - Manchester Lancs
James Ramsbottom Son Single Male 5 1906 - Manchester Lancs
520 Mill St Bradford Manchester, North Manchester, Lancashire
(says Married 12yrs, 4 children born, 4 living)


Marriages Sep 1899 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
CARLAN Maria Chorlton 8c 1347
Ramsbottom John William Chorlton 8c 1347


Marriages Sep 1914 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Macdonald Thomas N Ramsbottom Prestwich 8d 808
Ramsbottom Maria Macdonald Prestwich 8d 808


Deaths Sep 1967 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Mcdonald Maria 87 Manchester 10e 336


(Maria Mcdonald 1967, Blackley Cemetery)

https://www.burialrecords.manchester.gov.uk/

Could you tell me where you got the info from I've put his name sprinter Sheffield nothing is coming up


Thank you

Thank you for that Redmond /Raymond and Mary were James Sylvesters parents
Radmond died 1886 On James's daughter birth 1888 it had he was a bootmaker.

It's as thought we're talking about 2 different people , yes they were drinker but not heard anything about him sprinting The workhouse doubled up as a hospital, and they had 4/5 children


I'll have to look into this

Thank you

Saw a reference Withington, somewhere earlier in 'Thread'...

Chris :)

06 February 1891 - Sheffield Evening Telegraph - Sheffield, Yorkshire,

Boxing
ILLNESS OF FAMOUS SPRINTER.
James Carlan, of Sheffield, the famous sprint runner, is still lying in a dangerous condition, in No 3A Ward of the Withington Hospital, near Manchester, suffering from paralysis of both legs. Carlan writes us that he would be extremely glad if any of his old friends could furnish him with the address of any of his relatives.


11 April 1890 - Sheffield Independent - Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

(another article on him refers to him 'having a wife, and five little children'...
was seen in Crumpsall Infirmary, near Manchester, lying in a bed, suffering from paralysis of lower part of body, with both legs being useless. He had once jumped clean over Hyde Park wall, Sheffield. The doctors were to order an electropathic belt, but he had no funds to purchase)

(also, Pedestrian, Trainer)

(google bringing up quite a few references, Sheffield, pedestrianism, one famous one, being George Littlewood)

On the Manchester Workhouse Registers, James Carlan, Date of Admission, 29/8/90, From Whence Admitted, Hulme. Discharged or Dead, Died May 5 91.


Manchester Rate Books 1706-1900

(1883, could be him, 316, Stretford Road, Hulme)

(not there 1881, Uninhabited)

Chris :)

Cheshire Diocese Of Chester Parish Marriages 1538-1910 (Find My Past)

Photographer reference from image on above.


73, Bridge Street reference, Newspaper article, seemed to be headquarters of Mutual Sick Benefit Association, looking at other articles relating to address.

Chris :)

(was below his Father?)


Carlan, Redman (Lab., age 67).
Died at 7ct Smith Square, Bailey Lane; Buried on January 22, 1886 in Roman Catholic ground;
Grave Number 152, Section FF of City Road Cemetery, Sheffield.
Parent or Next of Kin if Available: . Remarks: .
Plot Owner: ~ ~ of ~. Page No 238
Find Similar in Same Grave

(also 4 other Carlan in same Grave)

http://www.sheffieldindexers.com/


22 October 1869 - Sheffield Daily Telegraph - Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Sheffield Town Hall
Assaulting Police-constables. Elizabeth Carlan and Redman Carlan, were charged with drunkenness, riotous conduct, and assaulting a police-constable, were each fined 40s. and costs, or one month's imprisonment.


13 October 1869 - Sheffield Daily Telegraph - Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Sheffield Town Hall
James Carlan, who had been apprehended in Manchester on the previous day, was charged with having committed a most violent assault on a police constable Hudson, in Cambridge Street, Sheffield, in March last.


20 October 1869 - Sheffield Independent - Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Sheffield Town Hall
The Assault on a Police-constable in Cambridge street. — A stylishly-attired man, named James Carlan, stated to be a pedestrian residing in Manchester, was charged with being concerned in the savage assault upon Police-constable Hudson ...”


Deaths Jun 1891 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------
Carlan James 46 Chorlton 8c 604


Withington Workhouse Death Register (Find My Past)

Date of Death, 5/5/1891. Age 46. From what Parish admitted, Hulme. Where Buried, Bradford.

The James in the workhouse in 1891 (mentioned in Sylann's OP ) is a licensed victualler.

Different man ? - or just one who changed his occupation frequently ?


James Carlan
in the 1891 England Census
Name: James Carlan
Gender: Male
Age: 45
Relationship: Inmate
Birth Year: 1846
Birth Place: Manchester
Civil Parish: Withington
Residence Place: Withington, Lancashire, England
Sub Registration District: Didsbury
ED, Institution or Vessel: Chorlton Union Workhouse (1)
Neighbors:
Piece: 3164
Folio: 105

Record Transcription:
Cheshire Diocese of Chester parish marriages 1538-1910

First name(s) James Sylvester
Last name Carlan
Age 28y
Marriage year 1873
Marriage date 09 Jan 1873
Marriage place Coppenhall
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Purcell
Spouse's age 22y
Bride's father's name Joseph Purcell
City or town Coppenhall
County Cheshire
Country England
Reference item 2 p 48
Record set Cheshire Diocese of Chester parish marriages 1538-1910
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain


james sylvester is a photografer

not a shoemaker

??

MARY ANN
Last name CARLON
Birth year 1880
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name -
District Sheffield
County Yorkshire
Country England
Volume 9C
Page 428



CARLON, MARY ANN CORNAN
GRO Reference: 1880 D Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 428


EDIT No possibly the daughter of these two.

Marriages Dec 1877 (>99%)
>>CARLIN Bernard Sheffield 9c 773 Scan available - click to view
CONNELLY John Sheffield 9c 773 Scan available - click to view
>>CORNAN Sarah Ann Sheffield 9c 773 Scan available - click to view
Stanton Catherine Sheffield 9c 773

It doesn't say they stopped his sick pay.

It sounds as if he had been their treasurer , or in a similar position of trust, and had either resigned or been sacked.

Or maybe some sort of insurance agent, going house to house to collect money??

Not to sure about the birth That is the one I've seen but that means she would have been15 when she married and her fathers name is James Sylvester Carlan I think this person has gone for this birth because the mothers name is Elizabeth Purcell

That about the sick pay is good so we have his address for 1888
Why would they stop his pay ? he died in 1891

Thank you for your help

Carlon, Maria Anna (of ~, born 1884-04-12).
Baptised April 12, 1884, by Joannes J Myers at St Vincents, Sheffield Centre.
Parents name(s) are Elizabeth Purcell & Jacobi ().
Note: Sine ceremoniis in periculo mortis.
Godparents: ~ ~ Ellenora Carlon :Page No 168 :Reg No

Deaths Sep 1967 (>99%)
Mcdonald Maria 87 Manchester 10e 336

So birth 1880, right enough.

??? another version of the baptism.

Yorkshire Baptisms

First name(s) Maria Anna
Last name Carlon
Birth year 1884
Birth date 12 Apr 1884
Baptism year 1884
Baptism date 12 Apr 1884
Baptism place Sheffield, St Vincent
Father's first name(s) Jacobi
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth Purcell
Denomination Roman Catholic
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Page 168
Record set Yorkshire Baptisms

A tree on ancestry has this as Maria's second marriage.



England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005



First name(s) MARIA
Last name RAMSBOTTOM
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1914
Registration month -

MarriageFinder ™


MARIA RAMSBOTTOM married one of these people

Thomas M Macdonald
Spouse's last name Macdonald
District Prestwich
District number -
County Lancashire


This as her baptism.



Name
Maria Anna Carlon
Gender
Female
Baptism Date
12 Apr 1884
Baptism Place
St. Vincent of Paul, Sheffield, York, England
Father
Jacobi Carlon
Mother
Elizabeth Purcell
FHL Film Number
1941826
Household Members

NameAge
NameElizabeth Purcell
NameJacobi Carlon
NameMaria Anna Carlon

and her death.

Death
11.09.1967 • Manchester, England, United Kingdom


There is also a photo of her.

Found mention of James in 1887 but can't find them in 1881!

NOTICE.— James Sylvester Carlan is no longer authorised to transact or receive money on behalf of the Mutual Sick Benefit Association. Chief office, 73, Bridge-street. By order

07 February 1887 - Manchester Evening News - Manchester, Lancashire, England


Afraid that's all it says :-S :-S

Thank you for all that I have most of it If Maria was born 1880 she would have been 19 when married which is ok but still not found a birth their is one in Sheffield? 1884 which would make her 15 when married
This is why I wanted the 1881 census to see how many children they had and their ages
The marriage is right the tree that corrected the name on census is a relation but she hasn't got them in 1881

Thank you for trying