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It seems I need Peter's Mothers full name, which I don't have, I only have Joan. I put in Peter Vernon born 01/04/1930 in Liverpool. I do apologise for my inexperience
:(

Thank you I will order Peter's birth certificate which will hopefully name his mother and Father :)

Karen -
you ask about Jack's birth cert.

Do you mean his supposed father from Ireland? If so, we have not found his birth cert. We do not know where or when he was born.

If you mean Jack Edgar Vernon, 1921-2006, supposedly born as John Hancock-Vernon, with mms Gee - as posted earlier by Maddie -
he may (or may not) be a brother of the Peter born 1930 in West Derby.

If ordering his birth cert via the GRO site as Erika says, these are the reference numbers to quote:

Births Sep 1921 (>99%)
Hancock-Vernon John E Gee W.Derby 8b 1003
Vernon John E Gee W.Derby 8b 1003


However, to recap a little, if the Peter born in West Derby in 1930 is your Peter, his father looks like being George H Vernon - not a Jack, unless Jack was a nickname - and George was born in West Derby, not Ireland. (The birth cert would confirm if George was that Peter's father or not.)

So either your information is wrong, or else we haven't found the right Peter's birth.

You say in your opening post that Peter 'married'

No evidence to support that statement

On the contrary - the mother of the last four children you name married in her maiden name in 1980

Easy to find on freebmd

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

Find the necessary info on freebmd, then order copy certs from GRO. The forms are very easy to fill in

Having said that, there is no birth registration to match what you say about the man - nor does there appear to be a marriage to the mother of the sons born in Devon

Wheres the best place to get Peter and Jack's birth certicates ? and Peter & Joan's marriage certificate if they got married?

We'd like to find the two daughters born to the first marriage in Liverpool. It likes he could have married in Aldershot

May be he was National Service conscription from 1939 to 1960 ?

I can't tell you how much you guys have helped me - Thank you

Peter did 9 Years at Dartmoor Prison for robbery , Torquay Barclays bank in 1972
( I would love to find evidence of this)

Karen have you tryed the local newspaper archives online

www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk

Wayne didn’t die in 1973. That was his BIRTH date

No still rambling but I will

John Vernon cannot Peters father if he was born 1921 and Peter was born 1930
Although Peter did move from Liverpool to Exeter???

If Wayne died 1973 why was he registered 1990?

Karen Have you bought Peter's birth cert?

I rather think you are not related to either this man or the woman on your other thread. If I am mistaken, please excuse me.

John Vernon cannot Peters father if he was born 1921 and Peter was born 1930
Although Peter did move from Liverpool to Exeter???

If Wayne died 1973 why was he registered 1990?

The 1939 posted by Maddie seems to be a different family

Constance 1914 and Winifred Annice 1918 born in Rotherham mum nee Dodwell.

So it looks like George did change name before he married.

Maryb.

Jack Vernon was supposed to have come to LIVERpool from Ireland for a better life. He was supposed to be a police officer. We think his two daughters still live in the Liverpool area

I'd like to thank everyone for their input, The families interest is more to connect the children of Peter. as all had a difficult time, and I'm afraid Peter doing time was part of it and I have been asked by Peter's children to find out as much as I can. I'm sure Peter did not go to America. Peter's second wife married a John Jary and died last year. We think Peterlast lived in Tavistock

Marriages Jun 1892 (>99%)
Hancox George Robert W. Derby 8b 745
WILLIAMS Mary Elizabeth W. Derby 8b 745


HANCOX, GEORGE HENRY mms WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1893 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 480


Sorry - I don't understand how that fits in with the Vernon/Gee marriage.
(Well, unless he did change his surname before marrying, as suggested.)

But then that doesn't fit the 1939 register entry posted by Maddie - unless the DOB on the Register is 10 years out - which is certainly possible.

Tree on ancestry has George Henry h Vernon born Walton Liverpool 1893 as George H Hancock/Hancox to George Robert Hancock 1854 Shropshire died Liverpool 1917 married Mary Elizabeth Williams born in Wales.

No idea when name change happened, I was wondering if he was a war deserter??

Maryb.

You beat me to it AG!- was just about to discount the John Thomas Vernon/ Emma Jane Gee marriage having seen their death notices in the papers.

I think John T Vernon is a red herring.
The marriage to Emma in 1914 looks like a second marriage, and Emma would have been too old to be having children in the 1930's.

Deaths Mar 1938 (>99%)
Vernon Emma J 64 Newcastle L. 6b 72

Deaths Mar 1937 (>99%)
Vernon John T 58 Newcastle L. 6b 65


Jno T Vernon
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Jno T Vernon
Gender: Male
Age: 11
Relationship: Son
Birth Year: 1880
Father: Jno Vernon
Mother: Ellen Vernon
Birth Place: Wolstanton, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Wolstanton
Residence Place: Chesterton, Wolstanton, Staffordshire, England
Sub registration district: Wolstanton
ED, Institution or Vessel: 6
Neighbors:
Piece: 2154
Folio: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
Jno Vernon 32
Ellen Vernon 40
Emma Williamson 17
Jos Williamson 15
Jno T Vernon 11
Wm Vernon 9
Ernest Vernon 7
Albt Vernon 4
Geo Hy Vernon 10/12


John Thomas Vernon
in the England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1988
Name: John Thomas Vernon
Gender: Male
Age: 20
Birth Date: abt 1880
Marriage Date: 16 Apr 1900
Marriage Place: Wolstanton, Staffordshire, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: John Vernon
Spouse: Ann Hadley


John T Vernon
in the 1901 England Census
Name: John T Vernon
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Annie Vernon
Birth Place: Newcastle Cross Heath, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Newcastle under Lyme
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Newcastle under Lyme
Sub-registration district: Newcastle Under Lyme
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Neighbors:
Piece: 2578
Folio: 106
Page Number: 30
Household schedule number: 184
Household Members:
Name Age
John T Vernon 21
Annie Vernon 23
Elizh E Vernon 3/12


VERNON, ELIZABETH ELLEN mms HADLEY
GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in NEWCASTLE UNDER LYME Volume 06B Page 44


Elizabeth Ellen Vernon
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Ellen Vernon
Age in 1911: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1901
Relation to Head: Adopted <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Newcastle, Staffordshire
Civil Parish: Newcastle under Lyme
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: 17 Fletcher Street, Newcastle Under Lyme
Occupation: school
Registration district: Newcastle under Lyme
Registration District Number: 359
Sub-registration district: Newcastle under Lyme
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 37
Piece: 16412
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Hadley 52
David Hadley 27
Mary Nickless 22
Arthur Nickless 20
Elizabeth Ellen Vernon 10


???

Ann Vernon
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Ann Vernon
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Registration Year: 1906
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 30
Registration district: Newcastle under Lyme
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 31


John Thomas Vernon
in the 1911 England Census
Name: John Thomas Vernon
Age in 1911: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Cross Heath, Near Newcastle, Staffordshire
Civil Parish: Silverdale
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: No 30 Wilton St, Cross Heath, Near Newcastle, Staffs
Marital status: Widowed <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Occupation: Coal Miner Collier
Registration district: Wolstanton
Registration District Number: 360
Sub-registration district: Wolstanton
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 30
Piece: 16452
Household Members:
Name Age

Elen Vernon 61
John Thomas Vernon 30
Albert Vernon 24
George Henry Vernon 20
James Vernon 19
John Vernon 8
Mary Emma Vernon 6