Find Ancestors

YES Chris HO and thanks yet again Argyle Gran x

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/military_chat/thread/1352206

(above relates here)

Chris :)

(haven't read through 'Thread', so apologies!)

Extremely long shot - on ship "Crispin" in 1915:

Ship's official number 0124098.

G Hancock; rank/rating, Assistant Cook; age, 21; place of birth, Liverpool; previous ship, Teutonic.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14734008

That ship was sunk in 1917:

Crispin United Kingdom World War I: World War I: The cargo liner was torpedoed and sunk in the Atlantic Ocean 14 nautical miles (26 km) south of Hook Point, Waterford by SM U-57 ( Imperial German Navy) with the loss of eight crew.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14734008

Ship listed here:
124098 CRISPIN [built] 1907

http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/ON120000.htm

Account of the sinking:
https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?59491



Can't see anything else for that ship around 1915.
There's a Booth Line "Crispin" with that number - but built in 1956:
http://www.benjidog.co.uk/allen/Booth1.html

The captain in 1915, George Trinick, also worked on other Booth Line ships.
He was on "Crispin" when she sank in 1917, but survived.

His war record (if any) would perhaps have been helpful!

He's Hancox in 1911 (posting again here for ease of reference):

George H Hancox
in the 1911 England Census
Name: George H Hancox
Age in 1911: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Walton Liverpooll
Civil Parish: Walton on the Hill
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 44 Index St Walton Lpool
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Shop Assistant (Bead Shop)
Registration district: West Derby
Registration District Number: 455
Sub-registration district: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Piece: 22388
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary E Hancox 48
George H Hancox 18
William J Hancox 13
Liles Hancox 4
Robert Rowlands 36

Then he's Vernon in 1918 when he marries. So the change may well been something to do with the war.

Maryb suggested he might have been a war deserter.
It's certainly a possibility, but none of us have managed to find any proof - it may be something you'll never know for sure.

We know he was a seaman (baker) in1918, and in the 1930's, and was living in the US in 1940, but we don't know when he first went to sea.

Hi Guys,
I have very much put together a Family Report which I plan to put together for a Christmas present to the Vernon Family So Thanks to nearly everyone for their input :0

There is one question that we need to answer which is : George Henry Hancox born 4th Feb 1893 at Rice Lane Walton West derby. WHY DID HE CHANGE HIS NAME TO VERNON

We know he was in the Merchant Navy , although I can't find his war record

After the first World war on 5th December 1918 he married an Annie Beatrice Gee using the name George Henry Hancock Vernon. he was a baker in the merchant service and living at Westminster Road, Kirkdale Liverpool. He was aged 24

Now it was suggested that he may have been a deserter and or wanted by the police. This is one mystery I would like to clear up.

And although family rumor stated an Irish connection 4 generations back has bought us to St Chads in Shrewsbury Shropshire.

Any ideas or expertise would very much be appreciated :)

Birth date varies wildly.

Charles Edgar Gee
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Charles Edgar Gee
Gender: Male
Marital status: Single
Age: 32
Birth Date: 1880 <<<<<<<<<<<<
Marriage Date: 21 Mar 1912
Marriage Place: Walton-On-The-Hill, Lancashire, England
Father: John Gee
Spouse: Violet Janet Theodoria Haynes
FHL Film Number: 1647990
Reference ID: page 216


Charles Edgar Gee
in the British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
Name: Charles Edgar Gee
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1891 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Enlistment Age: 27
Marriage Date: 31 Mar 1912
Marriage Place: Lpool
Document Year: 1918
Residence Place: 2 Nixon St Walton, Liverpool
Regimental Number: 2827680
Regiment Name: RFA DF
Number of Images: 51
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Charles Edgar Gee Self (Head)
Violet Janet Theodosia Spouse
Robert Francis Gee Child
Walter Edgar Gee Child
Edith Violet Gee Child
Robert Samuel Gee Child



GEE, CHARLES EDGAR mms BROOKS
GRO Reference: 1891 S Quarter in WARRINGTON Volume 08C Page 186



Marriages Jun 1877 (>99%)
Brookes Martha Warrington 8c 223
Gee John Warrington 8c 223



Chas Edgar Gee
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Chas Edgar Gee
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: John Gee
Mother: Martha Gee
Birth Place: Earlstown
Civil Parish: Walton on the Hill
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors:
Piece: 3454
Folio: 82
Page Number: 53
Household schedule number: 295
Household Members:
Name Age
John Gee 46
Martha Gee 42
Francis E Gee 23
Elizth F Gee 20
Eather H Gee 13 - son [Walter H on image - ie - Walter Henry ]
Mary G Gee 12
Chas Edgar Gee 11
Furness G Gee 8 [ Furness S on image - ie - Furness Stanley]
Annie B Gee 4 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Albert Lees 19 - boarder


Deaths Mar 1919 (>99%)
Gee Charles E 28 W. Derby 8b 618


So Charles is Annie Beatrice's brother and Peter's uncle.

Violet Janet Theodosia Gee
in the Essex, England, Church of England Marriages, 1754-1935
Name: Violet Janet Theodosia Gee
[Violet Janet Theodosia Haynes]
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 28
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1892
Marriage Date: 9 Jul 1920
Marriage Place: West Thurrock, St Clement, Essex, England
Father: W X Haynes
Spouse: John Linden Alston


Births Dec 1887 (>99%)
Haynes Violet Janet T W. Derby 8b 398


Marriages Mar 1912 (>99%)
Gee Charles E Haynes W.Derby 8b 529
Haynes Violet J T Gee W.Derby 8b 529

J V Alston was previously Gee.


J V T Alston
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: J V T Alston
Gender: Female
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 27 Sep 1894 [ corrected on image to 27 Sept 1887 - birth cert seen 1950]
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 91
Residence Place: St Albans, Hertfordshire, England
Occupation: Nurse
Schedule Number: 53
Sub Schedule Number: 4
Enumeration District: DEQI
Registration district: 139-2.
Inferred Spouse: John L Alston
Household Members:
Name
Matthew W Francis
Ida Francis
John L Alston - 8 Feb 1894, married, male nurse
J V T Alston


Marriages Sep 1920 (>99%)
Alston John L Gee Orsett 4a 1641
Gee Violet J T Alston Orsett 4a 1641

Good that you have the birth cert now, something definite to work from, I can't see an obvious aunt with the name Allston. Is that one L or two as you've put both?

I'm not sure how the JV Allston Aunt fits in .

Do we think the George K is the George R?

George K Hancock
in the 1871 England Census
Name: George K Hancock
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: 1854
Relation: Nephew

I have finally got Peter Theodore Vernon birth certificate born 1st April 1930
Born 429 Cherry Lane, West Derby. Father George Henry Vernon - Occupation Steamship Pantry man , Mother Annie Beatrice Vernon formerly Gee.
Informant - JV Alston Aunt Present at birth 429 Cherry Lane Walton

I have finally got Peter Theodore Vernon birth certificate born 1st April 1930
Born 429 Cherry Lane, West Derby. Father George Henry Vernon - Occupation Steamship Pantry man , Mother Annie Beatrice Vernon formerly Gee.
Informant - JV Alston Aunt Present at birth 429 Cherry Lane Walton

The marriage to Ellen Moorcroft looks good - but I don't see her death.

There's this death, which I'd looked at before:

Deaths Mar 1884 (>99%)
Hancox Ellen 47 W.Derby 8b 330


But I thought she was probably this woman:

Ellen Hancox
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Ellen Hancox
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: Wm. H. Hancox
Gender: Female
Where born: Leamington, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 51 Red Rock St
Marital status: Married
Registration district: West Derby
Sub Registration District: West Derby (Rural) (7)
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors:
Piece: 3711
Folio: 63
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Wm. H. Hancox 46
Ellen Hancox 44
Alice I. Hancox 20
Louisa E. Hancox 17
Wm. H. Hancox 15
Charles A. Hancox 13
Ellen R. Hancox 10
Caroline E. Hancox 7
Mary E. Hancox 4
Frank H. Hancox

I don't see that family in 1891, but the father William H is a widower by 1908 when he goes to the USA.
All the children seem to end up in the USA too, mostly in Virginia, but don't all go together.

Father and some siblings in West Derby area 1871

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Jefferson Street, Everton, West Derby, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George* Hancocks Head - Male 47 1824 - Shropshire, England
Henrietta Hancocks Daughter - Female 15 1856 - Shropshire, England
Elizabeth Hancocks Daughter - Female 12 1859 - Shropshire, England
William H Hancocks Son - Male 10 1861 - Shropshire, England


and remarried and in Kirkdale 1881

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
20, Miranda Road, Kirkdale, West Derby, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Hancocks Head Married Male 57 1824 Grocer Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
Sarah Hancocks Wife Married Female 37 1844 - Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
William Hancocks Son Single Male 20 1861 General Laborer Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
Sarah J Hancocks Daughter Single Female 6 1875 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
James E Hancocks Son Single Male 4 1877 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England

I posted this on the previous page as a possible first marriage.

Possible first marriage. If he was 37 in 1892 that would have made him born c1855 so possible - but with surname spelt differently?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

Marriages Dec 1876 (>99%)
Hancocks George Robert W.Derby 8b 646 <<<<<<<<<
McGHIE Kate W. Derby 8b 646
MOORCROFT Ellen W. Derby 8b 646 <<<<<<<<<
Slater James W. Derby 8b 646

A James and Kate Slater are on the 1881 census in West Derby with 1 year old twins mmn McGhie so the other couple would be <<<<<<< - George and Ellen

-------------
- even though there is a George in the workhouse in 1881 shown as single. Not impossible for the martial status to be wrong for whatever reason.

And this is the marriage from England marriages (her name shows as Moncroft) -
England Marriages 1538-1973

First name(s) George Robert
Last name Hancocks
Name note Carter
Marriage year 1876
Marriage date 19 Nov 1876
Marriage place Kirkdale
Father's first name(s) George Robert <<<<<<<<<
Father's last name Hancocks <<<<<<<<<
Spouse's first name(s) Ellen
Spouse's last name Moncroft
Spouse's birth year 1857
Spouse's birth date 1857
Spouse's father's first name(s) Edward
Spouse's father's last name Moncroft
Residence Kirkdale, Lancashire, England
County Lancashire
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973

Kirkdale and Walton are less than 2 miles apart

------------------------------
and from Lancsbmd

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1876
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MOORCROFT Ellen HANCOCKS George R Kirkdale, St. Mary Liverpool 2013WD/5/395

Mary Elizabeth in 1891:

Mary E Williams
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Mary E Williams
Gender: Female
Age: 28
Relationship: Daughter
Birth Year: 1863
Mother: Mary Williams
Birth Place: N Wales, Wrexham
Civil Parish: West Derby
Residence Place: West Derby, Lancashire, England
Sub Registration District: West Derby (Municipal)
Address: 13 Durden Street
ED, Institution or Vessel: 43a
Neighbors:
Piece: 2996
Folio: 120
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Williams 63
Eleanor Jones 65
Mary E Williams 28
John Williams 24

This is the only death of a female Hancox of a likely age, that I can see in Lancashire 1881-91:


Deaths Mar 1889 (>99%)
HANCOX Margaret 34 Barrow F. 8e 622

But have no idea if this could be George's wife or not - can't see a marriage.



NOT this one.
This George married Charlotte, and Margaret married Edward:

Marriages Jun 1886 (>99%)
Hancox George Birkenhead 8a 627
Jones Charlotte Birkenhead 8a 627
SAVAGE Margaret Birkenhead 8a 627
Williams Edward Birkenhead 8a 627

NOT this marriage:

Marriages Mar 1885 (>99%)
BENTLEY Harriet Ann Chorlton 8c 874
HANCOX George Chorlton 8c 874

That George was born c1862 Staffordshire, and he and Harriet are together in 1891.

Rose previously posted 1911 for George Robert, in Walton-on-the-hill.
Born c1854, Shropshire - also as in 1901 above.



George Robt Hancocks
in the 1861 England Census
Name: George Robt Hancocks
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: 1854
Relation: Son
Father's name: George Hancocks
Mother's name: Elizabeth Hancocks
Gender: Male
Where born: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: St Chad
Ecclesiastical parish: St Chad
Town: Shrewsbury
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration district: Shrewsbury
Sub-registration district: St Chad
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 213
Piece: 1873
Folio: 27
Page Number: 47
Household Members:
Name Age
George Hancocks 37
Elizabeth Hancocks 32
George Robt Hancocks 7
Henrietta Hancocks 5
Elizabeth Hancocks 2
William Hy Hancocks 6/12
Charlotte Cureton 73


George K Hancock
in the 1871 England Census
Name: George K Hancock
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: 1854
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Shrewsbury
Civil Parish: St Julian
Ecclesiastical parish: St Julian
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration district: Atcham
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 86
Piece: 2772
Folio: 31
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
William Cureton 39
Sarah Cureton 42
George M Cureton 5
Sarah Ellen Cureton 3
George K Hancock 17 - saddler's apprentice
John Pavell 45
Margaret Kinley 4


George Hancock
in the 1881 England Census
Name: George Hancock ( unmarried ) <<<<<<<<<<<
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relationship to Head: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Walton on Hill
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: "West Derby Workhouse" Rice Lane
Occupation: Dock Laborer
Registration district: West Derby
ED, institution, or vessel: Westerby Workhouse Continued
Neighbors:
Piece: 3694
Folio: 63
Page Number: 32



George Hancox
in the 1891 England Census
Name: George Hancox
Gender: Male
Age: 37
Relationship: Boarder
Birth Year: 1854
Birth Place: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Walton on the Hill
Residence Place: Walton, Walton on the Hill, Lancashire, England
Address: 37 Northcote Road
Sub Registration District: Walton
ED, Institution or Vessel: 37
Neighbors:
Piece: 2977
Folio: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Lacey 62
Arthur Lacey 18
George Hancox 37 - widower, general labourer <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Here's Lily in 1911, with her mother, but no father:


Mary E Hancox
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Mary E Hancox
Age in 1911: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation to Head: Head
Birth Place: Wrexham, Wales
Civil Parish: Walton on the Hill
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 44 Index St Walton Lpool
Marital status: Married
Registration district: West Derby
Registration District Number: 455
Sub-registration district: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Piece: 22388
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary E Hancox 48 - married
George H Hancox 18
William J Hancox 13
Liles Hancox 4 [ Lily on image ]
Robert Rowlands 36 - boarder


Mary E has had 4 children, all still alive as at 1911.
So that's George Henry, William James, Alfred Edgar, and Lily.