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Ellen
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13 Jul 2019 14:04 |
On William's birth certificate it states his father as Robert Stewart of Mitton of Barras Kinneff a Farm Labourer
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Ellen
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13 Jul 2019 14:11 |
Sorry my mistake yes they married in 1919
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ArgyllGran
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13 Jul 2019 14:58 |
"Mitton of Barras Kinneff" will just be his address at the time of registering William's birth. He could have been born anywhere.
EDIT:
Aha! there's this Robert in 1871:
Robert Stewart in the 1871 Scotland Census Name: Robert Stewart Age: 7 Estimated birth year: abt 1864 Relationship: Son Father's name: John Stewart Mother's name: Susan Stewart Gender: Male Where born: Steyne, Kincardineshire Registration Number: 262 Registration district: Kinneff and Catterline Civil Parish: Kinneff and Catterline County: Kincardineshire Address: Mill Of Barras <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Occupation: Scholar ED: 5 Household schedule number: 9 Line: 17 Roll: CSSCT1871_46 Household Members: Name Age John Stewart 34 Susan Stewart 26 William Stewart 9 Robert Stewart 7 James Stewart 5 Charles Stewart 2
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Dea
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13 Jul 2019 15:01 |
I have VERY strong suspicions about thisman !!!
Robert Stewart's life in 1939 141 Balsall Heath Road, Birmingham C.B., Warwickshire, England
First name(s) Last name(s) Birth year DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number Robert Stewart 1883 04 Jan 1883 Male Builders Ganger Married 126 1 Rose Stewart 1890 22 Dec 1890 Female Brass Polisher Married 126 2 Ref: RG101/5604C/012/14 Letter Code: QBVU
Marriages Sep 1915 (>99%) King Rose Stewart Birmingham 6d 805 Scan available - click to view Stewart Robert King Birmingham 6d 805 Scan available - click to view
He has various army records floating about on Ancestry and FMP which tell a very strange story - He seems to have started off as Robert Stewart and he was in the Cameron Highlanders - he seems to have deserted at some stage around Dedcember 1915 and then ended up a few weeks later in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment with the name of Robert FALCONER !!! It is very muddled but he may have deserted a second time around 1919 but he did manage to gain the Military Medal for gallantry in the Field?
Perhaps someone could take a look.
One of the records show that he was born in LAURENCEKIRK, County Kincardine, Scotland.
Name: Robert Falconer Regimental Number: 201643 Regiment: Royal Warwickshire Regiment Battalion: 1/5th Battalion Rank: Sergeant Medals: Military Medal Other Records: Search for 'Robert Falconer' in other WWI collections War Diaries (France, Belgium, Germany): Search for 'Royal Warwickshire Regiment' in the WWI War Diaries (France, Belgium, Germany) collection War Diaries (Gallipoli): Search for 'Royal Warwickshire Regiment' in the WWI War Diaries (Gallipoli) collection
View British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920 Name: Robert Falconer Gender: Male Document Year: 1916 Residence Place: Magpie Yard, Bromsgrove Street, Birmingham Regimental Number: ??724 Regiment Name: B?? Number of Images: 11 Form Title: Territorial Force Attestation Other Records: Search for 'Robert Falconer' in other WWI collections Family Members: Name Relation to Soldier Robert Falconer Self (Head)
I can't just find the record I had for him in the Cameron Highlanders as L/C R Stewart showing his desertion but I will try to find it again and post it later.
Can someone take a look at this please?
Dea x
EDIT:
Here it is, although he gives his address as (looks like) Darwen, Lancashire and he says he is a Professional Boxer but if you read through the records you will see that he is in fact the same one as Robert Falconer who was a 'Hawker / dealer' at that time and born in Kincardineshire.
Record Transcription: British Army Service Records What can I do with this record? View an image of this record We will use the details from this record to create your family tree for you. Report a transcription error. First name(s) Robert Last name Stewart Age 32 Birth year 1883 Birth county Kincardineshire Birth country Scotland Service number 17602 Regiment Cameron Highlanders Year 1915 Series WO 363 Series description ............ from FMP.........................
Dea x
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ArgyllGran
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13 Jul 2019 15:12 |
Re the 1871 family of Stewarts in Kinneff - posted above -
By 1881, James is a farm servant with the Robertson family in Kinneff. By 1900 he's in Connecticut.
Father John, and Charles are still together in 1881:
John Stewart in the 1881 Scotland Census Name: John Stewart Age: 46 Estimated birth year: abt 1835 Relationship: Head Gender: Male Where born: Garvock, Kincardine S Registration Number: 258/1 Registration district: Fetteresso Civil Parish: Fetteresso County: Kincardineshire Address: Detached Ho: Mill Of Cowie Occupation: Labourer (General) ED: 9 Household schedule number: 65 Line: 7 Roll: cssct1881_72 Household Members: Name Age John Stewart 46 Charles Stewart 11 Annie Stewart 54 - servant
Susan (nee Bain) died in 1873:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/150750855/susan-bain
STEWART (also listed as Bain) SUSAN 27 1873 262/ 14 Kinneff and Catterline
William was Susan's son from before her marriage to John Stewart:
William Bain in the Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 Name: William Bain Gender: Male Birth Date: 1 Nov 1861 Birth Place: Kirriemuir,Angus,Scotland Mother: Susan Bain FHL Film Number: 6035516
In 1881 he's a servant with the Buchanan family:
William Bain in the 1881 Scotland Census Name: William Bain Age: 19 Estimated birth year: abt 1862 Relationship: Servant Gender: Male Where born: Kineff, Kincardine Registration Number: 250 Registration district: Arbuthnott Civil Parish: Arbuthnott County: Kincardineshire Address: Gobbs Farm Occupation: Gen Servant ED: 3 Household schedule number: 5 Line: 15 Roll: cssct1881_71
Haven't found any more mention of Robert so far, though.
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ArgyllGran
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13 Jul 2019 15:23 |
This looks like my Kinneff Robert in 1901:
Robert Stewart in the 1891 Scotland Census Name: Robert Stewart Age: 28 Estimated birth year: abt 1863 Relationship: Head Spouse's name : Annie Stewart Gender: Male Where born: St Eyins, Kincardineshire Registration Number: 644/11 Registration district: Hutchesontown Civil Parish: Glasgow Govan County: Lanarkshire Address: 30 Polmadie St Occupation: Locomotive Fireman ED: 117 Household schedule number: 105 Line: 22 Roll: CSSCT1891_289 Household Members: Name Age Robert Stewart 28 Annie Stewart 27 William Stewart 2 Robert Stowart 1Mo
This is Kinneff Robert's birth - and his siblings also had middle name Bain:
STEWART ROBERT BAIN M 1863 267/ 24 St Cyrus
Therefore wondering about this man -
Robert Bain Stewart in the New Zealand, Police Gazettes, 1878-1945 Name: Robert Bain Stewart Publication Date: 1928 Publication Place: New Zealand Robert Bain Stewart; failing to provide; Dunedin.
Robert Bain Stewart in the New Zealand, Police Gazettes, 1878-1945 Name: Robert Bain Stewart Publication Date: 1930 Publication Place: New Zealand Dunedin - Robert Bain Stewart; failing to maintain; warrant cancelled.
EDIT:
But there was more than one Robert Bain Stewart, so maybe the NZ man is this one:
Robert Bain Stewart in the Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 Name: Robert Bain Stewart Gender: Male Birth Date: 10 Oct 1844 Birth Place: , Stow, Midlothian, Scotland Baptism Place: , Stow, Midlothian, Scotland Father: William Stewart Mother: Helen Bain FHL Film Number: 1067791 Reference ID: 2:186TVQN
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ArgyllGran
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13 Jul 2019 15:29 |
Re Robert Stewart in 1891 in my last post - here he is in 1901:
Robert Stewart in the 1901 Scotland Census Name: Robert Stewart Age: 35 Estimated birth year: abt 1866 Relationship: Head Spouse's name : Annie Stewart Gender: Male Where born: Kincardine, parish of St cyrus Registration Number: 644/2 Registration district: Camlachie Civil Parish: Glasgow Parkhead County: Lanarkshire Address: 909 Gt Eastern Rd Occupation: Inspector (chansing Dept) ED: 72 Household schedule number: 114 Line: 13 Roll: CSSCT1901_271 Household Members: Name Age Robert Stewart 35 Annie Stewart 34 William Stewart 12 Robert Stewart 9 Bella Stewart 6 John Stewart 2
Probably his death:
STEWART ROBERT BAIN 66 1930 644/4 381 Dennistoun
So if he is Kinneff Robert, he's unlikely to have been a farm labourer fathering a child in Kincardineshire in 1913.
Though I suppose it's just possible that Georgina didn't know his current occupation or address when William's birth was registered ?? Grasping at straws ?
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Maddie
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13 Jul 2019 15:40 |
a document in the falconer records says
hereith the original attesation record and documents elating to no 3/17602 private r stewart cameron highlanders who has been held to serve in the 3/5th royal warwick reg from1/04/1916
documents also relate to his desertion married rose king 24/08/1915
so r falconer and r stewart same man
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Maddie
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13 Jul 2019 15:42 |
Name: Robert Stewart Spouse Surname: King Registration Year: 1915 Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep Registration district: Birmingham Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District Inferred County: Warwickshire Volume: 6d Page: 805 Records on Page: Name Albert A Butler Rose King Annie E J Pinder Robert Stewart
Robert Stewart
in the British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920 View British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
View Packet Cover
Report issue
Name: Robert Stewart Gender: Male Birth Date: abt 1883 Enlistment Age: 32 Marriage Date: 24 Aug 1915 Marriage Place: Birmingham Document Year: 1915 Residence Place: 486 Blackburn Rd, Darwin Lanshire Regimental Number: 17602 Regiment Name: Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders Number of Images: 31 Form Title: Short Service Attestation Other Records: Search for 'Robert Stewart' in other WWI collections Family Members: Name Relation to Soldier Robert Stewart Self (Head) Rose King Spouse
Name: Rose King Gender: Female Marriage Date: 24 Aug 1915 Marriage Place: Birmingham Document Year: 1915 Residence Place: 486 Blackburn Rd, Darwin Lanshire Relationship to Soldier: Spouse Form Title: Information Supplied By Recruit Other Records: Family Members: Name Relation to Soldier Robert Stewart Self (Head) Rose King Spouse
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ArgyllGran
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13 Jul 2019 15:48 |
Looking at your Robert Stewart/Falconer, Dea -
His army record (in the name of Robert Stewart) says he's a pro boxer.
Deserted 14/12/1915. Tried 1/4/1916 for fraudulent enlistment. Sentenced to detention for 60 days. Held to serve in the Royal Warks Regiment.
Then, as part of Robert Stewart's army record, there's a letter date 6/5/21, saying,
Sir, I am in receipt of your letter dated 6th inst re 64091 royal Warwickshire Regiment (formerly 201643 [something] R War Reg) and have to inform you , in reply, that he deserted 27/9/1919, and I have no information regarding him since that date.
Another part of the record is a page saying he was born in Laurencekirk, and giving his name as Stewart, which is scored out, and Falconer written in instead.
Cameron Highlanders, regimental no 17602. Transferred to R Warwickshire Regt; regimental numbers 201643, then 64019
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ArgyllGran
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13 Jul 2019 15:58 |
His Will, also part of the army record, gives his reg no first as 201643, then that's scored out and replaced by 64019.
His name is shown as Robert Stewart alias Falconer.
Notes say: Serving Re-enlisted Deserter.
In the event of my death, I give the whole of my property and effects to Mrs R Stewart, 28 Court, 6 House, Magpie Yard, Bromsgrove Street, Birmingham. Signed: L/Corp R Stewart, 17602 S/Cameron Highlanders.
Another version of his Will gives Rose's name as Mrs R Stewart alias Falconer, c/o Mrs Vickers, Magpie Yard.
Then there are some pages of record from 1916 headed with the name L/Cpl R Falconer
He seems to have been known as Falconer when he deserted in 1919.
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Dea
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13 Jul 2019 15:59 |
Thanks Maddie and AG - that is exactly what I have found.
There is no proof that it is the Robert we are looking for but those 2 names and all those army records definitely relate to the same man who did start off in Kincardineshire within a very few miles of the place where the son William was born and they all add up to 'one' very suspicious person...............
Dea x
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ArgyllGran
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13 Jul 2019 16:03 |
Surprisingly, in his army paperwork there's a snippet from the Supplement to the London Gazette, Monday 14 Jan 1918:
Awarded the Military Medal, for bravery in the field. 201643 Sjt R Falconer, 2 1/5th Bn. R. War. R. (T.F.) (Birmingham)
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Maddie
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13 Jul 2019 16:19 |
???????????? 1891 Name: Robert Stewart Age: 11 Estimated birth year: abt 1880 Relationship: Son Father's name: James Stewart ---- Laurencekirk, Kincardinesh: s tailor Mother's name: Helen Stewart Gender: Male Where born: Laurencekirk, Kincardinesh Registration Number: 275 Registration district: Brechin Civil Parish: Brechin Town: Brechin County: Angus Address: 25 Crocketts Bld Occupation: Scholar ED: 9 Household schedule number: 187 Line: 9 Roll: CSSCT1891_84 Household Members: Name Age James Stewart 44 Helen Stewart 45 Helen Stewart 21 Margaret Stewart 15 William Stewart 13 Robert Stewart 11 Charles Stewart 9 Fraser Stewart 6 Joan Stewart 5 John Stewart 2 Alexander Stewart 11 M
Name: James Stewart Gender: Male Marriage Date: 19 Jul 1867 Marriage Place: Laurencekirk,Kincardine,Scotland Spouse: Helen Eaton
1851 Name: James Stewart Age: 4 Estimated birth year: abt 1847 Relationship: Son Father: John Stewart Mother: Margaret Stewart Gender: Male Where born: Lau Kirk, Kincardine Parish Number: 263 Civil Parish: Laurencekirk Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps: View related Ecclesiastical Parish Town: Laurencekirk County: Kincardineshire Address: High St Occupation: Scholar ED: 1 Page: 15 Household schedule number: 72 Line: 1 Roll: CSSCT1851_55 Household Members: Name Age John Stewart 29 Margaret Stewart 26 John Stewart 5 James Stewart 4 William Stewart 2 Margaret Stewart 5 Mo
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ArgyllGran
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13 Jul 2019 16:25 |
Re Robert Stewart, 17602 Cameron Highlanders - the address he gives on joining in 1915 is 86 Blackburn Road.
He's not there in 1911 - a family called Farnworth are at that address.
I just wondered if Stewart wasn't his real name. In 1901 there's a Robert Stewart at 69-71 Blackburn Road - not our man, but I wondered if maybe he'd borrowed this Robert's name:
Robert Stewart in the 1901 England Census Name: Robert Stewart Age: 27 Estimated birth year: abt 1874 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male Spouse: Elizth T Stewart Birth Place: Scotland Civil Parish: Darwen Ecclesiastical parish: Over Darwen St Cuthbert County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 69-71 Blackburn Registration district: Blackburn Sub-registration district: Darwen ED, institution, or vessel: 04 Neighbors: Piece: 3920 Folio: 96 Page Number: 37 Household schedule number: 262 Household Members: Name Age Robert Stewart 27 - physician and surgeon Elizth T Stewart 27 Elizth Ballantyne 22
That Robert was born in Hamilton, Lanarkshire, per 1911 census.
>>>>>>EDIT: Ignore the first part of this post, above this point. But I think this is correct from here on <<<<<<<<<<
Perhaps "our" Robert actually was Falconer ?
Birth:
FALCONER ROBERT M 1883 263/ 4 Laurencekirk
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ArgyllGran
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13 Jul 2019 16:29 |
Robert Falconer in the 1891 Scotland Census Name: Robert Falconer Age: 8 Estimated birth year: abt 1883 Relationship: Son Father's name: John Falconer Mother's name: Mary Ann Falconer Gender: Male Where born: Laurancekirk, Kincardineshire Registration Number: 442 Registration district: Kirkcaldy and Abbotshall Civil Parish: Kirkcaldy and Abbotshall County: Fife Address: 13 Victoria Rd Occupation: Scholar ED: 16 Household schedule number: 5 Line: 8 Roll: CSSCT1891_135 Household Members: Name Age John Falconer 53 Mary Ann Falconer 50 John Falconer 17 Alexander Falconer 14 William Falconer 12 Stewart Falconer 10 Robert Falconer 8
Robert Falconer in the 1901 Scotland Census Name: Robert Falconer Age: 18 Estimated birth year: abt 1883 Relationship: Son Father's name: John Falconer Mother's name: Mary Falconer Gender: Male Where born: Laurencekirk, Kincardineshire Registration Number: 442 Registration district: Kirkcaldy and Abbotshall Civil Parish: Kirkcaldy and Abbotshall Town: Kirkcaldy County: Fife Address: 10 Glebe Park St Occupation: General Labourer ED: 26 Household schedule number: 26 Line: 4 Roll: CSSCT1901_142 Household Members: Name Age John Falconer 62 Mary Falconer 61 Alexander Falconer 25 Robert Falconer 18
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ArgyllGran
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13 Jul 2019 16:32 |
1911 ????
FALCONER ROBERT 1911 M 27 258/1 3/ 12 Fetteresso Kincardine
No other Falconers in that household.
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Maddie
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13 Jul 2019 16:33 |
1901
Name: Robert Falconer Age: 18 Estimated birth year: abt 1883 Relationship: Son Father's name: John Falconer Mother's name: Mary Falconer Gender: Male Where born: Laurencekirk, Kincardineshire Registration Number: 442 Registration district: Kirkcaldy and Abbotshall Civil Parish: Kirkcaldy and Abbotshall Town: Kirkcaldy County: Fife Address: 10 Glebe Park St Occupation: General Labourer ED: 26 Household schedule number: 26 Line: 4 Roll: CSSCT1901_142 Household Members: Name Age John Falconer 62 Mary Falconer 61 Alexander Falconer 25 Robert Falconer 18
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ArgyllGran
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13 Jul 2019 16:34 |
If that's him - forget my earlier idea that he might have stolen the name of Robert Stewart of Blackburn Road - he wasn't in Darwen in 1911, let alone 1901.
Is it possible he told Georgina his name was Stewart , so that he couldn't be traced in the event of an unwanted child???
As he was tried in 1916 for "fraudulent enlistment" - maybe that means he'd joined up as Stewart, and then they'd found out his name was really Falconer ??
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ArgyllGran
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13 Jul 2019 16:55 |
Marriage of Robert Falconer's parents :
FALCONER JOHN STEWART <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< MARY ANN 1866 254/ 5 Bervie or Inverbervie
The Falconer family in 1881, before Robert's birth:
John Falconer in the 1881 Scotland Census Name: John Falconer Age: 8 Estimated birth year: abt 1873 Relationship: Son Father's name: John Falconer Mother's name: Mary Ann Stewart <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Gender: Male Where born: Laurencekirk, Kincardineshire Registration Number: 263 Registration district: Laurencekirk Civil Parish: Laurencekirk County: Kincardineshire Address: 21 Occupation: Scholar ED: 2 Household schedule number: 5 Line: 15 Roll: cssct1881_73 Household Members: Name Age John Falconer 42 Mary Ann Stewart 41 David Falconer 14 Margaret Falconer 12 Helen Falconer 10 John Falconer 8 Alexander Falconer 5 William Falconer 2 Stewart Falconer 5 Mths
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