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I have been searching for the Birth Certificate for my Grandmother who was born in1886 somewhere near Birmingham for a few years now and have never been successful. Her name as far as we knew as a family was Annie May Allen and she had two children before she married my Grandfather, Herbert Jones, whose surnames were Allen so we thought she may have married a Mr Allen but I could not find a marriage certificate.
Her mother was born Rosetta Maria Hoskins and I eventually found her and my grandmother in the 1891 Census in Newcastle. They both had the surname Allen and Rosetta was classed as widow and as a sister in law to the head of household, Stephen Ebeneezer Doughty. Annie May (aged 5) was classed as niece. This confused me for a long time as Doughty was not a name I had come across so I was scratching my head to try to work out how the sister in law relationship came about. Stephen's wife was called Annie and her maiden name was Miall, another name I hadn't come across. I tried searching for Miall and it is such an unusual name (possibly misspelt) that I found very little.
Then by chance I came across a reference to a birth certificate for an Annie May Maill born in 1886 so I ordered the certificate. The certificate showed the birthdate as 5th July 1886, my grandmother's birthday and the mother as Rosetta Maria Miall, formerly Hoskins. The father was Grenville Miall a clock maker. The birth was registered in Wednesbury , Staffordshire.
I have not been able to find a marriage certificate yet and I have a lot more research to do. This raises more questions and unfortunately there is no-one left in the family to ask. Any suggestions as to where to try next would be very much appreciated.

Is this your Rosetta?

Name: Rosetta Maria Hoskins
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 4 Mar 1857
Baptism Place: Stoke Newington St Mary, Hackney, England
Father: Richard Hoskins
Mother: Rosetta Hoskins
Register Type: Parish Registers

????


Grenville Maill
in the London, England, City Directories, 1736-1943
Name: Grenville Maill
Residence Date: 1885
Street address: 87 Church street, Kings rd SW
Residence Place: London, England
Occupation: Working Jeweller


Grenville Miall
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Grenville Miall
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 21 Jun 1848
Baptism Place: Eling, Hampshire, England
Father: George Horatio Miall
Mother: Jane Miall
FHL Film Number: 6344207


Greenville Miale
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Greenville Miale
[Greenville Miall]
[Grenville Miall]
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation: Son
Father's name: George O Miale
Mother's name: Jane Miale
Gender: Male
Where born: Eling, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Eling
Ecclesiastical parish: Eling St Mary
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street address: New Forest Union Workhouse
Registration district: New Forest
Sub-registration district: Lyndhurst
ED, institution, or vessel: 1f
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 185
Piece: 1668
Folio: 441
Page Number: 48
Household Members:
Name Age
George O Miale 45 - Master of workhouse
Jane Miale 39 - mistress of workhouse
Julia Miale 8
Greenville Miale 2

Grenville Miall
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Grenville Miall
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: 1849
Relation: Brother
Gender: Male
Where born: Eling, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Midhurst
Ecclesiastical parish: Chichester
Town: Midhurst
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Registration district: Midhurst
Sub-registration district: Midhurst
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 136
Piece: 626
Folio: 87
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
George P S Miall 28 - National lSchoolmaster
Mary M Miall 28
Maude M Miall 8/12
Grenville Miall 12 - scholar
Ellen Grevatt 13 - servant



If this is Grenville, he seems to disappear after 1861.

Rosetta Maria Hoskins
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Rosetta Maria Hoskins
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relationship to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Stoke Newington, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Bromley
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address: 78 Widmore Road
Occupation: Nurse Servant
Registration district: Bromley
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors:
Piece: 853
Folio: 103
Page Number: 7

Record Transcription:
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Cromwell Street, Westgate, Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland, England

Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Stephen E Doughty Head Married Male 52 1839 Electrical Engineer London, Middlesex, England
Annie Doughty Wife Married Female 40 1851 - Devon, England
Rosetta Allan Sister In Law Widow Female 34 1857 Dress Maker London, Middlesex, England
Annie M Allan Niece - Female 4 1887 - Warwickshire, England

Marriages Mar 1891 (>99%)
Carrick Elizabeth Newcastle T. 10b 168
Doughty Stephen Ebenezer Newcastle T. 10b 168 xxxxxxx
Miall Annie Newcastle T. 10b 168 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Murphy Francis Newcastle T. 10b 168

Rosetta Draffan
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Rosetta Draffan
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Spouse: James Draffan
Birth Place: Stockton-on-Tees, London, England [Stoke Newington on image]
Civil Parish: Stockton on Tees
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Town: Stockton on Tees
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Registration district: Stockton
Sub-registration district: Stockton
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors:
Piece: 4626
Folio: 118
Page Number: 22
Household schedule number: 123
Household Members:
Name Age
James Draffan 54
Rosetta Draffan 44
Nathaniel Draffan 25
Annie M Draffan 14 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Rosetta Hoskins Draffan
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Rosetta Hoskins Draffan
Age in 1911: 53
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Stoke Newington London
Civil Parish: Stockton on Tees
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: 26 Wade Street Stockton On Tees Durham
Marital status: Married
Registration district: Stockton
Registration District Number: 544
Sub-registration district: Stockton
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Piece: 29572
Household Members:
Name Age
James Currie Draffan 64
Rosetta Hoskins Draffan 53
Annie May Allen 24 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Edward Allen 2



Marriages Sep 1892 (>99%)
Allen Rosetta Newcastle T. 10b 214 view
DRAFFAN James Newcastle T. 10b 214

Rosetta M Draffin
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Rosetta M Draffin
Death Age: 83
Birth Date: abt 1857
Registration Date: Jan 1940
[Feb 1940]
[Mar 1940]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Durham South eastern
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 218

Rosetta Hoskins
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Rosetta Hoskins
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: 1857
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Richard Hoskins
Mother's name: Rosea Hoskins
Gender: Female
Where born: Stoke Newington, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Stoke Newington St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: Stoke Newington
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 188
Piece: 152
Folio: 30
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Hoskins 24
Rosea Hoskins 24
Rosetta Hoskins 4
Caroline Hoskins 2



She's not with her family in 1871:

Richard Hoskins
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Richard Hoskins
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Dulwich, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Bromley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter and St Paul
Town: Bromley
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Bromley
Sub-registration district: Bromley
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 158
Piece: 873
Folio: 122
Page Number: 29
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Hoskins 34
Caroline Haskins 12
Henry Hoskins 7
Archibald Hoskins 6
Emily Hoskins 3
Herbert E Hoskins 1
Mary Jaberham 43

Rosetta M Draffin
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name:
Rosetta M Draffin
Event Type:
Death
Registration Quarter:
Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year:
1940
Registration District:
Durham South Eastern
County:
Durham
Event Place:
Durham South Eastern, Durham, England
Age:
83
Birth Year (Estimated):
1857
Volume:
10A
Page:
218
Affiliate Line Number:
13

1939 Register logo
The National Archives logo
Rosetta Draffon's life in 1939
69 Cowpen Lane, Billingham U.D., Durham, England


Jones household
(3 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Annie M Jones 05 Jun 1886 Female Chairmaid Cleaner Chemical Works Widowed 34 1
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?
Rosetta Draffon 27 Jun 1857 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 34 3

Annie Doughty nee Miall was born in Ilfracombe c1851, per 1901 and 1911 censuses, so is unlikely to be the sister of the Grenville whose records I posted earlier.

Miall wasn't necessarily her maiden name, as she was c40 when she married Stephen.

I don't see a birth with a name anything like Miall in Barnstaple 1850-1853.

There's an Ann Mihill born in Tavistock in 1851, but I don't think that's her.

Just throwing this into the mix for the Annie Miall who married Stephen Doughty in 1891..........

maybe one of these?


Births Sep 1850

Conibear Ann Barnstaple 10 37

Births Dec 1850

Conibear Ann Barnstaple 10 45



Births Jun 1887

MIALL Grenville Ashworth Birkenhead 8a 507

https://www.gro.gov.uk/

MIALL, GRENVILLE ASHWORTH CONIBEAR
GRO Reference: 1887 J Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 507


coincidentally the child died in the Newcastle district (where Annie Miall married Stephen Doughty in the same quarter of 1891)

Deaths Mar 1891

Miall Grenville Ashworth 3 Newcastle T. 10b 39


maybe this is the MIALL connection, but I can find nothing to substantiate it

There's also this birth - I don't see this child in censuses so far:

MIALL, GRENVILLE HORATIO mms MORRIS
GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 953


Unfortunately, on searching, there are quite a number of people with a combination of the names Horatio/Horace , Granville/Grenville/Greenville/Greenfield , Miall/Myall/Mayall.
They seem to be popular names, especially in the north of England. Not helpful!

Thanks for your research but the majority of this I have found at some time or other . It is confusing how the names change, they seem to be used like this all the way through.
The more I look into this the more confused I get. It now seems that Grenville Miall fathered at least 4 children. I have a couple of people who are close to the family researching as well.
The names I have are
Julia Jane Miall Baptised in St Andrews, Manchester, Lancaster 3 Mar 1874 to Grenville and Mary Jane Miall.
Horace Greenfield Miall or Horatio Grenville Miall Born 5 Nov 1876 (Bap 24 March 1892 St Marks Cheetham Hill, Lancaster) - no father or mother mentioned but I have found references to this document in family trees related to the family. He seemed to be part of the Keay family (Agnes's parents) later.
Harriet Agnes Miall Born 8 Feb 1877, Baptised 6 April 1877 to Grenville and Agnes Miall (nee Keay) St James, Enfield Highway, Middlesex. This could possibly have been a marriage.
Grenville Ashworth Miall born 16 April 1877 Birkenhead - Mother Annie Miall formerly Conibear, father Grenville Ashworth Miall.
Annie May Miall born 5 July 1886 in Wednesbury, Stafford (My grandmother) to Rosetta Maria Miall formerly Hoskins, and Grenville Miall.
I suspect that Rosetta and Annie were not married to Grenville. I also suspect that they knew each other, possibly met because of Grenville. Rosetta was witness to Annie Miall's marriage to Stephen Doughty in 1891. Both of these ladies said they were widows and Rosetta was calling herself Allen then.
Confused? I don't think we will ever be able to crack this one but I am trying. My next step is to try to get hold of some of the birth certificates although I don't think they will help much.
The only trace of Grenville after 1861 seems to be the birth references. Possibly a misspelling, or error in transcription.

I will plod on.

Reference to Julia Jane...

Chris :)

County Lancashire
Place Ancoats
Church name St Andrew
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 1677
Baptism date 3 May 1874
Person forename Julia Jane
Person sex ?
Father forename Grenville
Mother forename Mary Jane
Father surname MIALL
Person abode Dundalk
Father occupation Soldier

https://www.freereg.org.uk/

Birth
MIALL Julia Jane DAKIN Ardwick Archives+, Manchester Central Library ARD/117/27

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php


?...

National School Admission Registers & Log-Books 1870-1914 (Find My Past)

First name(s) Julia J
Last name Miall
Birth year 1874
Birth date 09 Mar 1874
Admission year 1879 (on image 19/9/81)
School Name St Thomas' School, Ardwick
Town Manchester
County Lancashire
Parent or guardian's name John
Locality of record Manchester Ardwick St Thomas School
Book type Admissions
Title of records Admission Register Girls
Start year 1879
End year 1883
(Address, 54, Robert St. Date of Leaving Jan. 20th/82)

I presume you are aware of the army connection and the link to Ireland mentioned on Julia Jane's baptism:

Baptism:
County Lancashire
Place Ancoats
Church name St Andrew
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 1677
Baptism date 3 May 1874
Person forename Julia Jane
Person sex ?
Father forename Grenville
Mother forename Mary Jane
Father surname MIALL
Person abode Dundalk *** (County Louth)
Father occupation Soldier ***

Perhaps he married her mother in Ireland ??

Dea x

EDIT: OOps ! - I see Chris has posted same above - sorry I didn't refresh page........... x

Not seeing 54 Robert Street Manchester 1881. Margaret Finigan at 6...

(no idea on below!)


14 April 1871 - Manchester Evening News - Manchester, Lancashire, England

MANCHESTER CITY SESSIONS.
Mary Jane Dakin, for stealing a shirt. Three Days

Chris :)

(must get moving, Dentist pending, groans!)

Edits (would be below, for above)

Dakin Mary Jane 1832 — 1871 Manchester Prison Registers 1847-1881 West Gorton, Lancashire, England

(age 40, Servant, (Place of Birth) Prescott St. (Married and No. of Children) W 2)

(1871, Manchester City Gaol, Hyde Road West Gorton, Gorton, Chorlton. Widow)


14 February 1940 - Daily Gazette for Middlesbrough - Middlesbrough,

DEATHS
DRAFFAN. - On February 11th, at the residence of her daughter, Annie Jones, 69, Cowpen lane, Billingham. Rosetta Draffan, aged 83 years, beloved wife of the late James Draffan. To be interred at Billingham, cortege leaving above address 1.30 Thursday. All Friends kindly invited. "At Rest"